Richard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I sat in on the launch of the retrofit programme with the Minister before it was announced. Many people were there and we discussed many of the different aspects of retrofitting. I have been involved in construction my whole life. I know nothing but construction, bar politics. I want to deal with the here and now. During Leaders' Questions yesterday, I asked the Taoiseach why the cost of a barrel of oil, which was $162 in 2008 and we were paying €1.30 for a litre of petrol and €1.42 for a litre of diesel, while the cost of a barrel of oil in 2022 is $93 but we are paying €1.64 for a litre of diesel and €1.76 for a litre of petrol. He said the reason for the rising cost of fuel in this country is due to the price of a barrel of oil. I only received second level education but my second level education tells me that $162 minus $93 leaves $69 worth of a difference. It costs $69 less to buy a barrel of oil now. The problem people have is with the rising cost involved in doing the retrofitting. There is no value for money.

The SEAI gave a presentation on the same day as the launch. When the SEAI representatives brought out the programme, I asked them about the example provided of a three-bed semi-detached house. They told me that it was based on the cost of doing the house last year. They said it would cost €50,000 to carry out a retrofit on a three-bed semi-detached house. They said it would cost the householders €26,500 and they would receive a grant of €23,500. However, they forgot to mention the 17% increase in the cost of insulation since last October. The latter drives the price of the job up while the grant stays the same.

Since this was launched, contractors have been telling me that there will be a lot of work going on but that they have to sign up with the SEAI. The SEAI told me it had 1,700 people who can be contacted to retrofit houses. We asked about the type of people who would retrofit the houses, male and female, and we were told about the different trades that would be needed in certain parts of the programme. I was very concerned when the SEAI said that the lesser end of the scale would be the people who would be doing the attic insulation. Those were the words used. The most important people doing the attic insulation are those whom you would want to have considerable experience. Anyone knows that if the person doing the attic insulation does not fit it properly, it can result in the roof rotting.

I also asked how the SEAI knows the contractor retrofitting a house is capable of doing the work. I used an example of a house in County Limerick that was retrofitted. Insulation was pumped into a super-warm structure, which should not be done because it causes the house to sweat. They have tried to cover this up. They put in a ventilation unit to take condensation out of the house. It has not worked. I sat in that house and saw how the walls went black. I went to the local authority, which sent out engineer after engineer who said they were doing something wrong in the house, when, in fact, it was caused by pumping insulation into the walls of a super-warm structure during the retrofit. This was done because of the inexperience of the people and different contractors who carried it out.

We know there is a massive shortage of skilled trades people in this country. This happened since 2008, when the Celtic tiger economy crashed. Following this, people attended third level and went to other places because there was no work in the construction industry at the time. We have a ten-year gap that was caused by people not returning to the trades. When we were hit by Covid, people who were working in the trades on jobs that were closed down, went on to work in factories and different areas. People left the sector for jobs in which they can work from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. or 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. and because they wanted to get in out of the weather. Many people left construction and now we are seeking to retrofit houses from the autumn of this year.

There is another increase in the price of insulation and labour this month. There will be one next month and the month after. The costings on retrofitting are not going to be value for money until things equalise out.

Two people in a household who are working are the worst-off people in the country at the moment. They are trying to make ends meet. They do not qualify for anything. They have to pay for everything. The worst off in this country are the working-class people. Those who are not working get something and qualify for different things. Those who are working and are €2 over the threshold get nothing, no reliefs. These are the same people who are trying to feed their children, pay a mortgage or pay rent. If they have only one person working in the house, it is the same scenario. They are the worst-off. The only people this will benefit are those who have the extra cash reserves whereby they can do this themselves or those who will get it done through their local authorities. The officials in Limerick City and County Council said they are only going to retrofit 60 this year out of 5,347. That is their target. They know they do not have the labour to deal with the issues that are going to be in front of them.

We have people being told false information that it was the price of a barrel of oil that was driving up the price of fuel. In 2008, it was $69 dearer to buy a barrel of oil; we are paying less for oil now. We are now going to tell people the truth that it is carbon tax, taxes, VAT and customs and excise that are driving the price of fuel up. It is nothing else. While we need a certain amount of it, do we need the amount the Government is taking? Since 2020, the Government has been taking in €8 billion a year of an increase on the tax on fuel because it is using a percentage model. There is the barrel of oil, the Government puts on its percentage. That is the system. I have asked why the Government cannot reduce the price of fuel and it is saying it cannot. It has just said so. It is using the money it has to do a retrofit scheme to put more pressure on a system that is all oil based, to retrofit houses.

The Government is squeezing the population and 1 million people are below the poverty line. It is squeezing them because of the way it is taxing them. I am asking this be addressed now. A barrel of oil cost $162 dollars in 2008 and costs $93 now. The Government must give the people a chance to breathe. Yes, we need to retrofit but people today need to live and feed their families. They cannot save. They are lucky to make their rent. Let us look outside the box and see that we can help everyone, not only those who are in the local authority houses. We need to help the people who are working class as well. They cannot afford to do a retrofit because the rising cost is too much. I am asking for the Government to look at all people in this country and help them now, not in the future, saying that we need to do this. I want the Government to give me a commitment that it will look at all people and if there are couples who are in a financial position that they cannot retrofit, even though both of them are working, they need to be helped more. The people who qualify; that is fine. The people who have the money to do it, well, they have the money to do it.

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