Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

Everybody welcomes this protected disclosures legislation. Everybody recognises the necessity for it. There have been discussions in regard to some of the recommendations that might not be covered in it, but in fairness to the Minister he has stated he is open to a conversation around that and to taking on board some amendments. That is necessary. A significant number of Deputies have spoken specifically about protected disclosures that are already in play and the need for an element of retrospection. That goes without saying.

As has been stated, in an ideal society we would not necessarily require this legislation, but this is far from an ideal society. We have a long history of State agencies and non-State agencies protecting themselves and literally closing the doors. It has been very difficult to get to the bottom of cases where serious harm and wrong have been done. We have had a real slowness of putting up hands and admitting to mistakes and in regard to fixing those mistakes.

At a meeting of the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications, members heard from representatives of the Irish Air Line Pilots Association, IALPA, about the necessity for a greater level of regulation with regard to the Irish Aviation Authority to protect not only pilots, but the flying public. The IALPA representatives stated that this is required in primary legislation because what they want and need within the airline industry in this State is a just culture, which is the idea and what we want to see eventually within our agencies, including the HSE and An Garda Síochána, that we accept that an awful lot of mistakes are not necessarily made on the basis of wrongdoing. Some are and they need to be dealt with, including by way of criminal sanction, but in many cases they are not. We need a system where people who have seen wrongdoing or mistakes feel free to come forward and those mistakes can be addressed, protocols fixed and the system rectified. If it is the case that some of them are happening continually, it might be an issue of under-resourcing and that needs to be dealt with. We need to make sure that we, at least, have that just culture, that ability for communication and that everything is above board. As I said, we do not have a great history in this State in regard to this issue. A significant number of people are engaged in particular disputes with agencies, arms of the State and with Government from the point of view of seeking answers in regard to their questions and, beyond that, in regard to a mechanism that will provide them with accountability, answers and long-term solutions.

Like many other speakers, in particular from County Louth, I have spoken previously about the need for a public inquiry in regard to the tragedy and the 23 lives lost in Dealgan House at the beginning of the pandemic. The Taoiseach has stated he does not believe commissions of inquiry are necessarily the correct mechanism, that they can be costly and that they will not get to where they need to get on time or provide satisfaction to all. If that is the case, the Taoiseach will have to come up with a solution. That is the responsibility of Government. It is the case that people will always look for public inquiries where the State has failed within its own wherewithal to deal with miscarriages of justice and cases of abuse. We are still dealing with the Women of Honour situation, where women bravely came forward. They are not particularly happy with the mechanism the State has employed in regard to dealing with their issue. Other Deputies have spoken about the Maurice McCabe and CervicalCheck cases. We need to get to a better place in regard to all of that.

I welcome some of what has been said by the Minister in regard to the conversations we have had previously, whether on SIPO or the freedom of information system. He also spoke about the idea of open government. We need to take this opportunity to ensure we have strong whistleblower legislation that covers every angle possible. We all want the same end result, that is, to catch wrongdoing, fraud and mistakes and to have in place an open system that protects people so that they can come forward with information. We would like it if we could create a culture whereby they would not necessarily need these safety mechanisms but that culture does not exist at this point in time. Until we get to that point, we need to do this. There is an onus on the Minister and the Government to deliver and to identify where the weaknesses are. A significant amount of work has been done in this area by my colleagues, Deputies Buckley and Mairéad Farrell. We need to deliver a system that will work for all of the people out there. People want to see justice, accountability and transparency. More important, they want a system that works for everybody and the freedom that will allow people to come forward so that we can identify problems and address them as quickly as possible.

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