Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent) | Oireachtas source

The general scheme of the Protected Disclosures (Amendment) Bill 2021 was published last summer in advance of the 17 December deadline for transposition of EU Directive 2019/1937, known as the whistleblowing directive, into Irish law. However, the 17 December 2021 deadline has been missed by over two months at this stage. I ask the Minister to clarify whether any fines have been issued by the Commission and if so, the cost of any such fines to the taxpayer.

People have come to me from big organisations like the HSE, the Irish Prison Service, the Department of Defence and others and the stories they have told would make one's blood boil. While they could prove what they were saying, speaking out was not worth the potential financial cost and the risk of losing their job or their pension. The threats against them and their families made it too dangerous for them to speak out. We are all aware of the corruption that goes on in large companies, both private and public. Corruption can involve some of the most powerful people in powerful jobs and what they can do to the man or woman who is trying to do a day's work is frightening. The damage that can be done is insurmountable. I could go into a lot more detail but I will stop here to avoid any conflict for these people.

For the purposes of clarity, it is important that the Minister states whether the burden of proof will rest on the individual whistleblower or on the organisation. The hundreds of people who unleash the truth and speak out deserve to be mentioned here today. Their actions are patriotic and brave. All those who speak out against wrongdoing do so in the public interest. Such actions should always be encouraged and never discouraged in any way.

This Bill will further extend the scope and breadth of the protections afforded to individuals who make a protected disclosure in Ireland. While this is to be welcomed, it is disappointing that it has taken the Government so long to bring this legislation before the House. At present, the burden of proof in cases of penalisation under the Act rests with the person alleging the wrongdoing. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform previously indicated plans to reverse this burden of proof, meaning that the penalisation would be presumed to have occurred upon the making of a protected disclosure unless the employer could prove otherwise. However, the Bill makes no provision for this expected change.

It is also important to state that if a person is retaliated against for speaking out, he or she has the right to a remedy under Ireland's protected disclosure law but the process is not straightforward. In cases of reprisal that do not involve dismissal, the burden of proof is on the whistleblower to demonstrate that the only reason this happened is because he or she spoke out. This is difficult to prove because an organisation can often find other reasons for behaviour that seems to be retaliatory, or at least enough to cast a doubt. This burden of proof represents a significant obstacle. Whistleblowers rarely have the financial resources to compete with corporate legal teams. This is why many cases taken under the 2014 Act have not succeeded.

There is no point in tarring everyone with the same brush. There are great working relationships out there but some situations are shocking. One workplace that has been mentioned a lot today is the Irish Prison Service. It is time that the cap is taken off here and the muzzle is taken off too. People who have been wronged need to be able to have recourse to justice. They need to be able to put things right. It took many years for some whistleblowers to get the State to sit up and listen. If some of the things I have heard, and I am sure other Deputies have heard too, are true and valid, which I believe they are, it would shock the nation to its core as to what is going on in some places. I hope this legislation will help in some way to ease the burden on people and enable them to come forward. As Deputy Mattie McGrath said earlier, some of these people are suicidal. As a State, we must strongly stand behind these people. We must give them their right to speak and the right to have the wrongs that have been done to them for decades put right. I recently spoke to a person at great length about the difficulties he has gone through. It is astonishing to think that he has no safety mechanism to allow him to disclose what he has been through in his life to date.

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