Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I wish to share time with Deputy McGuinness.

I have a well-prepared few remarks here but, much like myself and Deputy Paul Murphy 20 years ago in the debating chambers of UCD, we might as well respond to one another because that is why we are here.

I will not necessarily be giving the Minister "soft points", as Deputy Barry has being laying out, but I will be making some of the points to the Minister that I have made to him in person, at our party meetings and publicly.

This report is a welcome report. It is a tough read for many of us on this side of the House, including the Minister. I welcome the Minister's personal endeavours and efforts to rectify many of the wrongs that are cited in this report - pay being part of it - but I must ask the Deputies opposite, when they talk about pay, what are we paying the members of the Defence Forces to do. Is it to implement social programmes or to defend the country? I heard earlier Deputy Paul Murphy talking about welfare over warfare. That is an extremely welcome comment. I agree with the Deputy but if he lived in Estonia and the welfare system was shut down for three days due to a cyberattack by the Russian Government, what is the use?

We need to have the systems, resources and attention to be able to keep people safe, to ensure that the housing that is going to built and the social programmes are not going to be manipulated by state and non-state actors.

I am not relying on dodgy intelligence; I am relying on the intelligence and evidence of state and non-state actors who are clearly putting out their intention by massing troops. We must be fundamentally honest with ourselves. The days are gone when we could bury our heads in the sand and say we can be neutral and condemn Putin, and then turn around and condemn countries that are our natural partners and allies. We must remember the European Union. I did not interrupt Deputy Barry despite his direct comments to me and what he said to Minister. We are members of the European Union and we do have allies. We do not spend time on this globe alone. We must be serious about our responsibilities. I accept that 12 fighter jets on their own will not work as a deterrent, but that is why we have to work in partnership. There are other militarily neutral countries in the European Union that can contribute far more than we do, such as Sweden, Austria and Finland.

There is a level of ambition in this report that is welcome, and it should be embraced. I believe it can be embraced by the vast majority of people in this House if we work together. We must ensure that we have proper systems of redress in the context of pay negotiations as well as proper redress to ensure that the culture and environment in which members of the Defence Forces work is appropriate but, equally, that we have a system whereby we can work with natural allies to ensure that Ireland and its people and interests are protected. At the moment, when we look at the threats on the very near horizons, be it our sea border or on the eastern flank of the European Union, there are growing state and non-state threats that we have to be fundamentally concerned about.

The cyberattack on the HSE last summer devastated families throughout this country. We are talking about upgrading computers and systems in the HSE. Deputy Boyd Barrett referred to it earlier when the Taoiseach answered parliamentary questions. I fundamentally agree with him. We must make sure that the systems and its computers are safe. That is not just about downloading antivirus software, it is about working with partners to ensure that we have the intelligence and resources to secure those systems in every way possible.

When we talk about this report, we are not just talking about individuals or systems; we are talking about the tools required and the manner of using them. Our Defence Forces have to be properly equipped. There are ambitions in this report that are far reaching. I fundamentally believe that they need to be embraced. I do not believe it is a case of either this or that; we must look at this in terms of the responsibilities of the Government to protect every member of society. We ensure that the members of An Garda Síochána are able to go out on the streets, properly protected and informed. We ensure that they have a relationship with the Police Service of Northern Ireland, the Metropolitan Police Service and police services across the European Union in order that they can work to counter criminal activity. It is the same with the Defence Forces. We must work in partnerships that suit us, but we have to be able to bring something to the table. We have great resources in the State. We have great experience in terms of counterterrorism work and building technological systems across the public and private sectors. We have something to bring, but at the moment when we speak to European colleagues, we are not bringing enough in terms of collective responsibility. That is not talking about the myth of a European army or the over-militarisation of the war machine that is the EU; rather, it is the quite simple basic responsibility of every government in any functioning western democracy to ensure its people in the state and around the world are kept safe.

I welcome this report. The Minister can rely on my support not just on soft points. I urge him, as I have before and as I will continue to do, to embrace it and to work with partners across the political realm, in the public sector and in the private sector, but most importantly with the current and former serving members of the Defence Forces to ensure that those Defence Forces are that is fit for purpose, not just for today but for the next ten to 20 years. I look forward to having many more opportunities in this Chamber and beyond to bring about the full implementation of the recommendations in the report.

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