Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak on the Bill before the House this evening. I thank and commend Deputy Carroll MacNeill on introducing this Bill to the House. The Bill seeks to amend Article 15 of the Constitution to allow both Houses of the Oireachtas to put into Standing Orders circumstances under which Members could vote remotely.

It is very timely that we are debating this issue now. First, because we have seen at first hand the effect the pandemic has had over the past two years on the workings of the Oireachtas and, second, because as a collective we are currently looking at initiatives that could bring about a more family-friendly and inclusive Parliament. The issue of remote voting is an important part of that conversation.

Over the past two years, the Covid-19 pandemic has had a profound impact here in Ireland and on societies and economies across the globe. We know that it is still with us, but thanks to the sacrifices made by people over many months, the strength of solidarity among communities across the country and through the intervention of science with effective vaccines, we hope that the worst is over and that the pandemic's impact is receding. However, similar to other pandemics in the past, Covid-19 leaves in its wake societal, economic, political and cultural changes that will last far beyond the pandemic itself. As policymakers, we must acknowledge this and plan for the new dynamics in our personal and working lives that are now becoming a reality.

Deputy Carroll MacNeill's Bill fits right in to this conversation in terms of changes in how we work here in this House. The use of technologies for remote working have been with us for many years, but none of us realised that physical meetings would be completely replaced by virtual ones. It never occurred to us that significant decisions could be made without having to meet face to face. It has also made us realise how efficient virtual meetings can be, as the need for travelling to and from meetings and commuting from home to the workplace is no longer always necessary. It also had many other positive benefits in terms of issues such as childcare and other caring responsibilities. The pandemic has led to a seismic shift in how we now view our working lives. For many people and businesses remote working or a form of blended or hybrid working is becoming a mutually beneficial work model that can lead to better choice for workers and increased productivity. The Government fully recognises this.

The programme for Government includes several commitments on remote working. Remote work is already a key consideration in the national economic plan, the climate action plan, the town centre living initiative and the smarter travel policy. The Government is committed to increasing remote work adoption in Ireland through removing barriers, developing infrastructure, providing guidance, raising awareness and leading by example in this area. The Government's remote work strategy, published in January last year, built on the progress made in the adoption of remote work over the Covid-19 crisis period. The strategy set out plans to strengthen the rights and responsibilities of employers and employees to provide the infrastructure to work remotely and sets out clear guidance on how people can be empowered to work remotely away from the employer's premises.

A key part of the strategy is a legislative framework and last month, the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment published the general scheme of the Right to Request Remote Working Bill 2022. The legislation will set out a clear framework to facilitate remote and blended working options, in so far as possible. The Bill will give every employee the right to request remote working from their employer. It will ensure that when an employer declines a request, that there are stated, reasonable reasons for doing so and that conversations with workers will take place is a structured way. It will give employers and workers legal clarity on remote working, which became the default for many during the pandemic.

It must be acknowledged that remote working is not for everyone or for every organisation or workplace and a balanced approach to this issue is required. It will, however, ensure that there are better choices and options available for people. The legislation is a key part of the Government's spring legislative programme. Work is also under way to deliver a policy of blended working in the Civil Service. A policy document was published last July and the goal is to deliver a blended working policy that can provide flexibility to both employees and employers in a manner that supports the continued delivery of high-quality services to the public and to businesses while at the same time providing employees with choice and opportunity.

What does all this mean for Members of the Oireachtas? We know that the way we work changed over the past two years. The requirement for social distancing led to an increased use of virtual meetings and it has ongoing benefits. The Business Committee of the Dáil, which meets every Thursday to order the business of this House, continues to meet virtually and I think members of that committee would agree that the use of virtual meetings is a great support to the more efficient use of Members' time. The pandemic has brought into sharp focus an issue that has been discussed for a long time in Leinster House, that of a more family-friendly Parliament. All of us who have the privilege to work here representing our constituents recognise that it is a somewhat atypical workplace, with working hours that make work-life balance challenging, particularly for those Members with young children, with other caring responsibilities and those who live far from Leinster House. I congratulate the forum on a family-friendly and inclusive Parliament and its chair, the former Deputy, Mary Upton, for producing an excellent report in November of last year which puts forward many recommendations on how we might achieve the goal of a more family-friendly and inclusive Parliament. Some of the recommendations echo the proposals in the Private Members' Bill we are discussing here today. I was very pleased in recent days to have been able to implement one of the recommendations in the report, which was to better align the Dáil calendar with school holidays. Following on from a request from the Ceann Comhairle and with the agreement of the Business Committee, I have amended the Dáil calendar so that the Easter break in the Dáil aligns with the school Easter holidays.

I understand that a steering group is being put together to work on the overall implementation of the recommendations in the report. I encourage all Members to support this important initiative. One of the most difficult issues that needs to be addressed for Oireachtas Members is that of maternity leave, paternity leave and sick leave. The report from the forum highlights the fact that these issues are a significant impediment to a family-friendly, inclusive and gender-sensitive working environment for Members. Similar concerns were addressed in the report of the Citizens' Assembly on gender equality, published in June of last year, which recommended making maternity, paternity and parental leave available to all elected representatives, including Ministers and to provide flexible working options, including remote working and voting and adjusting meeting times and rules, to suit caring responsibilities.

The Government has committed in the programme for Government to develop supports and alternatives for Oireachtas Members to take parental leave. My colleague, the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy O'Gorman, recently met with members of the Irish Women's Parliamentary Caucus to get their views on how the provision of maternity leave for Members of the Oireachtas would operate. There will be further engagement with Oireachtas Members on the matter over the coming weeks and months to see how best these issues can be addressed. I look forward to the outcome of the discussions.

I will now turn to the specifics of the Bill before us this evening. In introducing this Bill, Deputy Carroll MacNeill had in mind that remote voting would greatly assist those Members on maternity, paternity or sick leave being able to participate in the legislative process. The Bill, in accordance with Article 46 of the Constitution, seeks to amend Article 15 of the Constitution to provide for each House of the Oireachtas to put into its Standing Orders circumstances under which Members could vote remotely. At present, the Constitution does not allow for the Oireachtas to sit or to vote remotely. Article 15.1.3° of the Constitution envisages that the Houses of the Oireachtas will sit in or near Dublin, but that the Oireachtas can sit in such other place as they may determine, which is understood to mean another physical location. Article 15.11.1° provides that all questions in each House shall be determined by a majority of the votes of the Members present and voting other than the Chairman. This is understood as requiring the physical presence of Members. This constitutional provision led to the development of innovative solutions to ensure that the Oireachtas could continue to do its work and that votes could be taken during the pandemic while ensuring the safety of the parliamentary community. Once again, I thank the Houses of the Oireachtas Service for all its hard work in keeping both Houses up and running in two separate locations, while at the same time keeping everyone safe.

Of course, this was not the only parliament that had to tackle the issue of members having to be present to vote. I noted with interest a report by the Oireachtas Library and Research Service from April 2020 which stated that remote voting was the most challenging parliamentary procedure most parliaments had to deal with during the pandemic. Countries such as the UK, Austria, Canada, Denmark, Germany, Finland and Israel all require their members to be present and voting. The solutions found by other parliaments were similar to those of the Oireachtas, with the use of remote meetings where possible, reduced footfall within parliament buildings and agreement among all members on reduced voting.

I note the report of the Forum on a Family Friendly and Inclusive Parliament also recommends that Article 15 of the Constitution be amended. The Deputy’s Private Members’ Bill aims to address remote voting by amending Article 15.11 of the Constitution with the insertion of a new subsection 4 which states, “Each House may make its own rules and Standing Orders providing for special and limited circumstances in which members of the House concerned, who are not present in that House, may vote when any matter or any class of matter as so provided for, is to be determined by a vote of that House.” This is a complex matter and one that will require significant thought. Any changes to Article 15.11 in terms of remote voting or any wider changes allied to that in terms of remote working would also need to take into account other provisions in the Constitution. Article 15.1.3o of the Constitution envisages that the Houses of the Oireachtas will sit in or near Dublin, or in such other place as they may determine, which is understood to mean another physical location. We would have to examine how this would fit into a scenario where Members are participating virtually. Following on from the constitutional requirement to be physically present in a physical structure, how would virtual participation work with Article 15.12 of the Constitution, which provides for utterances in the House being privileged?

Finally, we must also ensure, in an overall way, that the much-needed introduction of family friendly policies is balanced appropriately with the constitutional obligation under Article 16 that Dáil Éireann be composed of Members who represent constituencies determined by law.

These are all matters that need to be examined and analysed closely and are questions that have been discussed in these Chambers for a long time now. The pandemic has shown us that when something has to be done, it can be done. We have a great opportunity now to work together to identify and to provide the longer term solutions that will make the Oireachtas a more family friendly and inclusive Parliament. This, in turn, it is hoped, will encourage more people to participate in political life.

As I have stated, the Government is not opposing this Bill. I again sincerely congratulate Deputy Carroll MacNeill on proactively proposing this Bill and providing an opportunity and a focus for addressing this issue as part of the overall discussion on this agenda. I look forward to hearing the views of the Deputies present and debating this important matter further in the context of the legislation.

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