John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Since the Minister was appointed and the new Department established, he has certainly made huge strides on the reform of this area and indeed funding for it. That must be acknowledged. He has cut new ground in almost every part of the third level sector. When he visited the Institute of Technology Carlow he made quite an impression with the interest he took in all the projects that were displayed and each of the individuals he spoke to.

I also admired the fact he introduced the type of reform that deals with the accountability issue. That is hugely important. We rely on the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Committee of Public Accounts to do an awful lot of this work. In the past, we have had various scandals but also good news stories emerging from the third level institutions. However, when accounting before the Comptroller and Auditor General, every aspect of expenditure and governance must be covered. Consideration should be given to expanding the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General and providing it with the appropriate and necessary support to cover all the sectors for which it is responsible.

Of course, we can introduce all the legislation we like and establish a new regime but without a change in culture in the third level sector, we will face the same problems we have now in ten years' time. I see that culture now in Munster Technological University, MTU. A senior Member of this House and I sought a meeting with the president of MTU to deal with a legacy issue from Cork but we were told the president would not meet us. If a president of an educational institution can say that to Members of Parliament who are trying to address issues, it gives him or her licence to do as he or she pleases. It is early in the game for that. The Minister should intervene and insist on the appropriate steps being taken to ensure Members of the House who have issues have them addressed by the president or someone senior within the university structure. I would like to see the particular legacy case I speak of dealt with. I am tired of raising it here. The Minister has given me a good and positive hearing but these are legacy issues that will drag into new arrangements and structures, serve to contaminate them and cause further controversy and disagreement. I therefore ask that the Minister insist on MTU dealing with the issue and before getting on with the business in hand.

The Minister mentioned that the Bill makes provision for co-operation between the HEA and other bodies, including SOLAS, Qualifications and Quality Ireland, QQI, and Science Foundation Ireland, SFI, and also for the establishment of a national apprenticeship office. I propose that, in the context of Carlow and Waterford, he consider purchasing a site in Kilkenny and establishing an apprenticeship scheme there to cover a wide range of apprenticeships. Kilkenny has always been the home of design and innovation. It had the Kilkenny Design Workshops and would be an ideal location to provide the types of schemes that would be necessary on a greenfield site connected to the university structures. The Minister should examine that proposal and provide the funding for a greenfield site for setting up the apprenticeship schemes many Members have asked him about in the course of this debate.

Kilkenny is also the centre of our Norman heritage. The Normans influenced our country greatly and had an influence right across Europe. Norman studies should be incorporated somewhere in the south east with a Norman trail because a significant number of those studying our culture and heritage are now travelling Europe using the tracks created by the Normans at that time. Perhaps a museum of Norman studies would be of interest and would add a tourism element to the structure of our universities.

My last point on universities is on student accommodation, which I believe the student representatives in Carlow mentioned to the Minister. The number of companies within the university structure is growing. Such companies should be encouraged to go down the route of providing student accommodation to ensure good quality accommodation is made available to our students. If there are to be profits from that kind of activity within the university sector, they could go back into the general coffers of the university and perhaps fund further initiatives.

The main point in all of this is that the Bill is moving in the right direction. We are getting transparency and accountability. It is new, innovative and imaginative and will achieve a great deal. My message to the Minister is to deal with those culture issues I spoke about. I truly want to meet the president of the MTU and others involved in it to discuss the legacy case I spoke about. Perhaps an early intervention would bring about a resolution and help the universities and the new structures to look ahead instead of having to look over their shoulder at legacy issues that are yet to be resolved.

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