Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I have been calling for a hybrid leaving certificate for this year's cohort of sixth year students since last July, when I raised the issue with the Minister in the Chamber and in the Joint Committee on Education, Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, on the basis of what these students missed in fifth year. However, I must say I do not believe the Minister is the problem. In fact, I believe the Minister has always acted correctly when it comes to the leaving certificate. In 2020, when the Minister inherited the assessed grades system from her predecessor, the former Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy McHugh, we in the Labour Party encouraged her to delete the school profiling element of leaving certificate 2020. The Minister did so, and did it for the right reasons. Quite a number of students got a fairer leaving certificate as a result. Last year, we appealed to the Minister to listen to the students because of what was happening 12 months ago. Again, the Minister did the right thing. When others were walking away from the table, the Minister was encouraged by the advocacy of the students who were at the heart of that campaign for a hybrid leaving certificate, found the solution and delivered it. I was the first to congratulate her on that occasion.

Now, the Minister has the opportunity to stand up in the face of those who sound like Shirley Valentine's husband, Joe, who said they always had steak on Thursday, when it comes to the leaving certificate. I do not understand why so many voices in education are so wedded and married to the traditional leaving certificate. What is so glorious about it? As the Minister is aware, we in the joint committee are listening to testimony after testimony about the leaving certificate as it currently stands, why it needs to be radically overhauled and reformed, how it is completely out of date, how it has not really changed since I did it or from the 1980s, when people older than me did it. We have heard how it is effectively the same, how it is far too much of a burden on young people at the end of their senior cycle and how it does not really reflect the abilities of young people as they go into the next stage of their lives. We have heard what they are asked to be assessed on and how they are assessed is completely out of date. All of these things are effectively being accepted by anybody who has an objective look at the leaving certificate. It is brutal and cruel. It may be transparent and fair, but it is very unfair for anybody who has ever had to go through it. I am quite sure that if you ask any Irish person whether they still have nightmares about their leaving certificate, they will say yes, and they will know that subject gave them nightmares. For me, it was biology.

Even now, with this national education conversation happening about the leaving certificate being unfair, I ask the Minister to imagine what it is like for students going through this unbelievably unfair and brutal process this senior cycle. Add into the mix the fact they are doing it in a pandemic, they missed a load of months in fifth year, they have effectively since October been facing issues with teachers and students being out because they are sick, and there is no guarantee that is going to change anywhere between now and June.

Others have mentioned the advocacy of the ISSU. I think the ISSU has been central to the change in the way education is being talked about. As the Minister knows, far too often in education, we have heard from everybody else except the students, young people or the children. We have heard from all these other people. We have heard those who have made these "we always have steak on Thursday" type remarks. They are married and wedded to the system they cannot move away from. They are rigid. They are the voices that rejected or were resistant to change in the junior certificate a number of years ago. They are the voices that are still resistant to change in the leaving certificate.

I must say, in this Chamber as a Labour Party politician, I am disappointed by the response of the teacher unions to this debate. I think they could be more imaginative and responsive to the needs of their students. They advocated for schools not to open a number of weeks ago because they asserted the teacher personnel would not be available to keep the schools open. They must realise that if the teacher personnel was not there to keep schools open, then surely the teacher personnel cannot be there to properly empower, instruct and teach the students between now and June.

I know of all the arguments that have been put forward about the lack of data from the junior certificate, even though the majority of students actually have done a junior certificate. I know all these arguments about grade inflation. I understand the pressures the third level institutions are highlighting. However, if we are genuinely trying to put the student at the heart of the discussion, then we can always find solutions to these issues and stop problematising all the time. We can find solutions, as we did last year and in 2020. How many debates do we have in these Houses, in committee rooms, in this Chamber and in the Seanad, and in Irish society about the mental health of young people? We have exhaustive debates on the mental health of young people, the stresses on young people and the heavy burdens of living in modern society that are placed young people's shoulders.

Despite this, when it comes to the leaving certificate, which is probably the most stressful thing they will do in their young lives, they are doing it in the middle of a pandemic when they are worried about their relations, older people and possibly themselves and the effects on their health that Covid could have. They have gone through all of this and missed out on in-school learning. They have had to do remote learning. If they are in a disadvantaged situation, it is doubly compounded. They now face a situation where they are unsure about their teachers being in. They have all this uncertainty about the leaving certificate. We will say in our response with regard to mental health that we have to go back to the traditional leaving certificate. It is like saying we always have steak on Thursdays. What I say to the voices in education is that they should try to broaden their perspective on what we are trying to achieve. This is not a quick fix. It is not necessarily an easy thing to do.

I am quite sure the Minister has her view on this but she wants to make a comprehensive announcement. There is not really any point in the Minister saying she believes in a hybrid model and then for all the questions to be asked of her and for the answers not to be readily available. I absolutely accept this. She needs to have the teacher unions on board if she is going to pursue a hybrid model. She needs to be able to answer questions on grade inflation. She needs to be able to answer questions on places in further education and third level education. I absolutely accept this.

We had an online petition and between students, teachers and parents we received almost 10,000 names. The Minister knows exactly what the ISSU has done. It has taken the time to survey its members and 68% of those due to sit the leaving certificate advocate for a hybrid model. The Minister knows what the Ombudsman for Children has said. The job of the Ombudsman for Children is to assess situations even-handedly and independently to see what is best for young people. Many leaving certificate students are technically still children. In this pandemic and time of national crisis it is his perspective that the best thing for students and for the system is a hybrid model. This is also the perspective of the National Association for Principals and Deputy Principals. With all of this I accept it is not a quick and easy decision. I suggest it probably should have been made before now. If we had had this decision in November, and perhaps if the Minister had listened to me in July, we could be well along the way.

I repeat what I said at the beginning. The Minister has always made the right decision. Whatever criticisms I or the Opposition have of the Department or the Minister, and we have had robust exchanges in the House, I have to say I will be steadfast in my view that the Minister has always done the right thing by leaving certificate students and junior certificate students. She inherited an unfair mess in 2020 and justifiably changed it. She changed lives in the way she approached it. Last year, when others were walking away from the table the Minister listened to those who were still there advocating for the student voice and she made the right change. She has the exact same opportunity this year to listen to those putting students at the heart of the discussion, who want what is best for them in this most anxious and uncertain time and who want to deliver to them what they need, which is a hybrid leaving certificate examination. I believe this is the decision the Minister wants to make. If she makes that decision, the Labour Party and other parties in the House will work with her as closely as we can to make it a success. We urge the Minister to conclude her deliberations as soon as she possibly can and make an announcement, if possible this week, that the leaving certificate students who have been advocating so brilliantly in writing emails to their local representatives will get what they have campaigned for, which is the fairest result of a hybrid leaving certificate in 2022.

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