James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputies for their constructive and, for the most part, quite positive comments on the Bill. We are bringing the Bill through the Houses and it has been through the Seanad already. A number of issues have been raised and I will try to address some of those. I will also have an opportunity to address some of them in more detail on Committee Stage.

A number of Deputies raised the important issue that those who are being smuggled are often in a desperate situation. At a minimum they are seeking a better life for themselves, as Deputies Martin Kenny, Howlin, Jim O'Callaghan and others pointed out. We have sought to ensure the Bill strikes a balance in that it will get prosecutions against the smugglers who are seeking to get a financial benefit from smuggling people but without putting those who are being smuggled into any risk of being prosecuted themselves and that they would feel they are in a safe situation. The challenge under the existing legislation is that it has been almost impossible to prove that such activities are done for profit or gain because those payments and profits are often made in third countries and because those who have been smuggled have often been fearful of coming forward to make any statements. The purpose of this legislation is to make it easier to prosecute the smugglers and we have taken significant steps in the Bill to protect the smuggled people, who are often exploited, and ensure they are protected from prosecution.

Deputy Martin Kenny also raised the issue of regularisation and we will be publishing the new scheme for the undocumented in Ireland. We will be able to be proud of that scheme and it will be one of the most important schemes anywhere in the EU. We have a history of Irish people being undocumented in other countries, particularly in the United States of America. If the country is going to continue to seek the regularisation of the undocumented Irish in America, then we have to lead by example. We will be publishing that scheme to regularise the undocumented in Ireland soon. Those people are here and they are living and working here so we have to bring forward such a scheme, which is almost ready to be brought to Cabinet.

I would like to clarify one issue in particular. It is a general defence in the Bill for people acting out of humanitarian grounds, and the reason for the general defence is that if we start putting in specific situations, it becomes very black and white. We can trust our Director of Public Prosecutions and judges to ensure those acting out of humanitarian grounds are not convicted for doing so. That is why it is a general defence in the Bill as opposed to specific situations being mentioned. We are not creating a situation where we are designating particular groups either. If we were to start designating individual NGOs, for example, we would have situations where individuals would find themselves acting out of humanitarian assistance to protect somebody who was being smuggled but may then find themselves being convicted of an offence. We are confident the way the general defence is drafted will protect anybody acting out of humanitarian grounds. The Bill will get that balance right while also ensuring we can prosecute and convict those who are carrying out smuggling on a for-profit basis and who are exploiting people.

A number of other Deputies raised important issues around ensuring there is compassion, and all of these issues will be addressed on a compassionate basis. These are, as Deputy Howlin pointed out, real and ordinary people who are often suffering and who want a better life for themselves. We have to treat people as humanely as possible and that is exactly what we are trying to do in the Bill.

I disagree with Deputy Costello who effectively said there is no difference between human trafficking and people smuggling. There is a clear difference and it is important the distinction between the two is maintained. People smuggling is the facilitated irregular movement of people across borders for a financial or other benefit and occurs where the person being smuggled is doing so with consent. That does not mean that person is not vulnerable. He or she can be very vulnerable and he or she is at risk of being trafficked as well but there is an important distinction. Human trafficking involves the recruitment, transportation and exploitation of a victim. You do not even need to be a non-national to be trafficked. You can be trafficked within this country. That is an important distinction that remains but we want to ensure in this Bill there are no gaps between smuggling and trafficking that anybody can exploit.

As Deputy Catherine Murphy rightly pointed out, this is only one part of a lot of things we are doing to protect people, whether they are being smuggled or trafficked. As I stated earlier, the new national action plan on human trafficking; the development of training, through NGOs, for front-line staff in industries such as the hospitality, airline and shipping sectors who may come into contact with trafficked persons; the improvement of supports for victims through the implementation of the Supporting a Victim's Journey programme; and a number of other important steps are being taken across the Department of Justice to ensure people are being protected, whether they are being smuggled or trafficked.

A number of Deputies raised the issue of dealing with Immigration Service Delivery, ISD, previously known as INIS, and trying to get information from it, and a lot of that criticism is legitimate. The staff in ISD are doing their best but the system as set up has almost become akin to a situation of pen pals, as was once said to me. There is that much correspondence going on yet people cannot find out where they are. The reason for that is we do not have proper ICT systems around ISD. A lot of people are on different applications that have different stages. I recognise that and we have carried out a review of the entire system and we are upgrading those ICT systems. Funding was put in at budget time for additional immigration staff so that we can streamline this entire system, so that people will be able to readily identify where they are, and so that we do not have a number of different sections of ISD writing to various people on that.

The general data protection regulation, GDPR, section was also raised and we cannot change that, but all that is required from a Deputy is to demonstrate he or she has the consent of the person concerned and then we can provide that information. I have had responsibility for immigration for the past six months and it has gone back to the Minister, Deputy McEntee, since Monday. Any time I saw a letter coming my way going out to a Deputy telling him or her that information could not be provided, I made sure a line was attached to the letter to state that if the Deputy got the consent back to us, we would then provide the information. That is one way to resolve that issue.

We are coming up to the anniversary of the death of those poor victims in my county of Wexford. Deputy Howlin eloquently described the horrors of what happened in 2001 with those people who were smuggled and died in Wexford. It is horrifying to see that kind of tragedy happen, and such tragedies should not happen. They happen because smugglers feel free to carry out this smuggling and exploitation of people. That is what we are determined to bring to an end with this Bill.

I thank all the Deputies for their contributions. There will be further opportunities on Committee Stage to assess some of these issues in a more detailed manner. Deputy Catherine Murphy raised the atypical working scheme in the fishing sector. Along with the Minister of State at the Departments of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and Social Protection, Deputy English, and the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy McConalogue, I initiated the process of carrying out a review of that scheme. It has been in place for about five years and it was welcomed at the time. It was brought in urgently and was needed, but the principal officers in the Department of Enterprise, Trade of Employment, the Department of Justice and the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine have met on a couple of occasions to see in what format a review could take place and how that could be carried out. That matter has gone back to the Minister, Deputy McEntee, as all immigration matters have, and I am sure she will pursue it with the same determination I have in recent weeks.

As I have said, I look forward to having a more detailed consideration of the various sections on Committee Stage. Overall, this is a positive Bill and part of the broader remit of what we are carrying out in the Department of Justice at present.

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