Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I want to ask the Minister of State one further question on the consultation. He has said he will talk to anyone, and I know it is the case that he will. Just like me, however, no one's job here is guaranteed. I seek confirmation from the Minister of State that he will engage proactively with employers and unions, not only to monitor the progress of this but also to hear if there is a chilling effect. I have expressed my concern that this may inadvertently have a chilling effect. I sincerely hope it does not. I understand the need to legislate because of the Supreme Court ruling and that in many ways the Minister of State's hands are tied because the requirement is to implement the court's judgement.

I know the intention is not to discommode or disadvantage any worker or employer. I note the Minister of State has referred several times to decent employers but, to be honest, they are not usually the ones who end up in the WRC. Most employers never see the inside of the WRC. I am not sure if it is on Haddington Road or elsewhere now. Most employers are never down there. We are talking about legislating for all workers and employers, good, bad and indifferent, but in my own experience, most workplace disputes are settled at the level of the workplace. That is the best place to resolve them and the place where you usually get the most satisfactory outcome. That involves dialogue and maybe informal mediation. We are talking only of those cases that are sufficiently protracted to have ended up in the WRC. Plenty of good employers also end up in the WRC, but we are talking about those employers who are in the minority, or indeed those workers who are in the minority who might seek to take a case to put the name of the employer up in lights. Equally, an employer could seek to take a case or a worker could be taking a case and the employer might think, "Well, I'll soften your cough now and see how you like it when your name is up in lights", as they would perceive it. The vast majority of workers and employers deal at local level and do their business in a collegial way, and ensure they get the best outcome. It is for the minority we need to be careful.

Talking about precarious employment, apart from one person, nobody in this Chamber who is elected has a guaranteed position. In general, our positions are not guaranteed. While I fully respect that the Minister of State does talk to everyone and anyone - I appreciate that he does, as it is a good thing - somebody else may not be so disposed, and I would like him to put on record that there will be engagement in a timely manner with a view to ensuring that those who are practitioners, which are not just the employers but also the legal people who will use it and the unions, will have an input into ensuring that should it be required and should any amendments be required to the legislation, that they will be based on their experience. With reference to the Supreme Court judgment, there has to be a win on that.

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