Dáil debates

Wednesday, 7 July 2021

Education (Student and Parent Charter) Bill 2019 [Seanad]: Second Stage

 

2:37 pm

Photo of Aodhán Ó RíordáinAodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a bheith anseo chun éisteacht linn mar gheall ar an mBille seo. This is good legislation which the Labour Party is happy to support. We need to change the conversation around education in its totality. With that in mind, it is beyond time for us to discuss the establishment of a citizens' assembly on education. Seeing as we hope that we are now coming out of this pandemic and given that many fault lines have been exposed by that pandemic and that many power struggles in the area of education have also been identified, it is now time for us to take an entirely new look at the way in which the education system is structured. This is important if we are to put students and parents at the heart of the discussion on education.

We know of the pressure that students brought to bear on the system by demanding to be heard with regard to the leaving certificate. In fairness to the Minister, this campaign was met with a listening Minister. The leaving certificate was only changed to a model based on choice because she was willing to listen and took the students' view on board and treated them with respect. Deputy Foley will not always be the Minister for Education, however. That is why we need legislation to underpin that type of understanding and engagement. When I worked in the education sphere, I was always told to look at everything from the perspective of the child or young person. It is rare enough that the child is at the centre of our debates on education. There are any amount of power brokers and power struggles between vested interests, including representative bodies, patron bodies and the Department. It is rare that the child is at the centre of everything we discuss.

I remember taking this to the extreme and, when the children had gone home, sitting in the very chairs in my classroom in which they sat to see how they viewed the education system and what it was physically like. I wanted to see how far they were from the board, the draughty window or the toilets and whether their space was encroached on by the people beside them. It was really instructive. If one physically places oneself in the place of the children, one's mind is opened to their experience. The whole point of education is not to cater for people like the Minister and I or people working within the system but for those whom we are all trying to serve, the children and young people. Having said that, if the teachers, the SNAs and the school community are not empowered, it is very difficult for them to empower the children in turn.

With regard to parents and what has been said about voluntary contributions, I can only agree. The Labour Party tabled a Bill which aimed to abolish voluntary contributions because, as the National Parents Council has said, the relationship between many parents and the school system is financial or transactional. It is based on money. Far too many of the conversations parents have with schools, with teachers and with principals are about money. Parents' associations become fundraising bodies. Parents are asked if they have brought in the voluntary contribution, the book money or the swimming money. Are parents of lesser means then less or more likely to hang around the school gate? Are they less or more likely to respond to that type of communication from the school? Are they less or more likely to go to the parent-teacher meeting if they are going to be reminded about the voluntary contribution, the book money or the swimming money?

In fairness to the Minister and her Department, they have begun to roll out a scheme of free schoolbooks in a number of schools throughout the State. That is to be welcomed. That is the type of relationship we want to have between parents and schools because it is fundamentally about children and young people rather than about money. In Northern Ireland, one does not pay for schoolbooks. A cultural shift happens within families if they do not have to spend late August or September worrying about the school book list, getting the money to get the books and whether the school has a book rental scheme. All that is done away with because the State has made a decision, based on values, that children should not have to pay for their schoolbooks and are just given them. The Minister has decided to roll out a pilot scheme. That is to be welcomed. We want to work with her to make sure that the families of all the children in the country do not have to put their hands in their pockets to provide schoolbooks because the relationship between too many parents and the education system is about money.

When it comes to parents' associations, what is the first thing on the agenda but the fundraiser? What is the fundraiser for? It may be to keep the lights on or to keep the school running. There is a fundamental inequality in that because there are only so many schools that can raise a certain amount. There are schools in affluent areas that can raise an awful lot more money than those in disadvantaged areas, which are almost completely dependent on the Minister's Department to pay the bills. There is an inequity in that. In Finland, such things are banned but, of course, in Finland everyone has bought into the idea of funding public services properly through a progressive taxation system. In some modern social democratic countries, people think it is appalling that fundraisers are held for schools. We need to change the mentality in Ireland. It is disgusting that schools are forced to hold fundraisers. We all buy into it, turn up and spend money on the advertisements but it is appalling that schools should need fundraisers to keep them going. Parents then feel their role is to raise money for the school rather than to have proper engagement and a proper empowering discussion about the future of the school and how they can help their children, their children's classes and the entire school community to grow together in a learning environment. It comes down to bloody money.

This is progressive legislation and a move in the right direction. The Minister is facilitating the voice of students and parents and that is to be welcomed. However, within the broader discussion we hope to have through a citizens' assembly on education, it must be recognised the financial transactional relationship between parents and schools has to go. The Minister can imagine the humiliation if one does not have the money and one's child comes back from school with a voluntary contribution envelope. What does one say to one's child? It is just humiliating. Education is supposed to be the great leveller, the great enabler and the great liberator. How can one be liberated when it feels that whenever one receives a communication from the school one must be embarrassed because one is being asked for money which, because of one's circumstances, whether temporary or permanent, one just does not have?

It is just wrong but we have got it into our heads that this is what we have to do and that we have to raise funds for the local school. It is wrong and we should make a collective political decision that it is wrong. While it cannot happen immediately, we must move to a position where, culturally and politically, we will have got it into our heads that the school system will be funded to such a degree that schools will not have to hold fundraisers and can actually talk about education. Imagine what a mind-blowing experiment it would be to empower parents to talk about education rather than money. I know what it is like to be the person on the far side of the desk. I know what it is like to be the person sending out reminders about the book money or the swimming money. One would rather talk to the parents about anything other than money.

Let us go back to the positive elements for a second because it is not good enough for political representatives and Oireachtas Members to come in here pretending that we have all the answers while the Minister is doing nothing, which is what a lot of political over and back is about. What has the Minister done? She has introduced this legislation. She said she would and she is doing it. What else has she done? She has ensured the student voice is at the heart of the leaving certificate process. Not only was the voice there but it was listened to. The students were saying they needed choice and the Minister delivered that, which is to her credit. She has also said that she is serious about the constitutional convention or citizens' assembly on education. Let us work towards that and have a proper discussion about the nature of funding and about where the power lies, because far too much of it lies with the patron bodies. What else has she done? She has worked with us to ensure that a pilot free books scheme will be rolled out. I believe this has been expanded from 51 schools to twice that number. We are moving towards a meeting of minds.

When we pass this legislation, which we hope to table amendments to, to force the agenda around voluntary contributions and this transactional relationship, we need to move into the space of having a citizens' assembly. Government and Opposition can collectively come to a conclusion we have to move beyond the hand-in-the-pocket way of running our school system. The conversation should be about the betterment, empowerment and potential of the child and how parents, teachers and school communities can work together to achieve that. We want to work with the Minister and will do our best to enhance the Bill, but we want to see the citizens' assembly happening as soon as possible.

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