Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

The modelling presented by NPHET to the Cabinet on Tuesday did not take account of the changes that NIAC has now permitted in relation to vaccines, nor could it have. We still do not know for sure what the changes that NIAC is now permitting will do in terms of the vaccination programme. We knew that the vaccination programme would slow down in July because we could not use the AstraZeneca and Janssen vaccines on young people. We now know that we can do that, but we do not yet know how much it will allow us to speed up the vaccination programme in July, or when. That work is being done today. There are still some uncertainties. There is uncertainty around the supply of AstraZeneca and uncertainty, for example, as to what uptake will be if we change to a different model such as a walk-in type model. All of those things have to be worked out. It is only when they are worked out that the data can be input into the modelling. The Deputy will understand why that is.

In terms of the ideas put forward by the Deputy, the Government is considering a proposal regarding use of the Janssen vaccine. We do have some surplus stocks. We may get more, but we do not know that for sure. We are certainly considering the possibility of opening that up to be people under 50, who could go to the 750 community pharmacists providing this service and avail of that vaccine. What the Deputy said was very prescient. He said that if we announce this, there will be queues outside the pharmacies. There might be, but will there be the stocks? That is the type of work the HSE has to do: talk with pharmacists, ask them whether they can do this, what level of stock they would need, and whether we have them. In fairness, this decision from NIAC was only made on Monday. Today, is only Thursday. In fairness, to the HSE it will take a couple of days to operationalise this and to work out what the implications are. I want to extend my thanks and respect to the HSE as there have been so many changes to the vaccine programme. Where we are is, perhaps, where we should have been at the start. All of the vaccines work and they can be used on all age groups. Two doses of AstraZeneca is as good as two doses of Pfizer as makes no difference. In all case there are size effects and in all cases the benefits outweigh the risks. We are now in that place. Perhaps, if we had been there from the start we would have got more done more quickly.

On the digital Covid cert, again, what the Deputy suggested is exactly what we are doing. We are working out whether we can use the digital Covid cert to apply it domestically. We do expect that within the next three weeks hundreds of thousands of people will receive their digital Covid cert, electronically or by post. We are working out now whether we can use that domestically. It was only ever intended for international travel. Border check control staff checking these passes is a very different thing to staff in the local pub or restaurant doing it. That needs to be worked out.

In terms of remodelling the data, that is exactly what we are going to do. We will remodel the models. That will be done in advance of 19 July as I said yesterday on "Morning Ireland" and it will take into account two things: the experience from Britain, Scotland and England in particular, and how bad the Delta variant really is. We will have a better idea in two or three weeks and we will certainly know what changes to the vaccination programme will mean. We can then make decisions again.

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