Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

As has been said by others, this is very important legislation. It is something that was badly needed and which people have been waiting on for years.

I wish to respond to some of the points made by the Minister earlier and yesterday about morale and where we are now with the Defence Forces. Last week, I spoke to a member of the Defence Forces who was just back from the Lebanon. He is a man with a young family and he has been asked to go back out. He was away seven months, between his deployment and the Covid-19 restrictions. The Defence Forces are so badly stuck for trained personnel - and it ties into what is in the legislation about having the training and right personnel there - that they are looking for members who have just been out in Lebanon and Syria for seven months to go back out there because the personnel shortage is so bad. These are the facts. These men and women are happy to do their job and are happy to represent Ireland as peacekeepers and to go out to these areas. However, it is very unfair to expect a man to be away from his family for so long because we are short personnel. The reason for that, as we have known for years, is the terms, conditions and pay. I know another member of the Defence Forces who is currently in the Lebanon. For the last number of years, that person has had to work delivering pizzas so he and his partner could afford to get a mortgage. Those are the facts. A member of the Defence Forces could not get a mortgage until he got another job delivering pizzas at night and at the weekends, all because he and his partner wanted to buy a house. That is where we are and that shows what the level of pay is. It cannot be right that two people in good jobs, one of those being in the Defence Forces, could not get enough money for a mortgage.

This legislation is important but we must go further because the people I am talking to want to stay in the Defence Forces. They are proud to be in the Defence Forces but they do not feel they are appreciated or valued. The Minister made a point yesterday about the private sector coaxing people out of the Defence Forces. In my experience, from the people I speak to, the vast majority of them take the decision to leave the Defence Forces because they are looking for jobs that pay better money so they can get mortgages and look after their families. It is all because they do not get paid enough. Maybe some of them are being headhunted because they have very sought-after skills but the vast majority of people I speak to do it because they have to do it for their families, so they can have a good quality of life. That is something we must now work on. Today is a good first step but we have a long way to go because I remember being out protesting with families of Defence Forces members who are crying out for support.

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