Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I said earlier that we should all listen to Deputy Howlin, who has far more experience than I. He asked a very logical question. While we may not agree on the primary purpose of a pub, the publicans that I know, and I am sure that he knows too, give far more than that. They give service with a smile and they look after their customers. They are ringing some of their customers to make sure they are all right because they have not seen them in more than 15 months. They are telling them that they are open for outdoor drinking and that they can make them comfortable. That is the kind of relationship between barmen and owners and their customers in pubs all over the country, but this is confusing. It is mind-boggling.

I have referred to the public seating in the square in Cathair Dún Iascaigh, which is a huge addition to the town. I compliment Mr. John O'Meara and his team in the county council and everybody associated with it. It is lovely to see people sitting out, especially when the weather is nice. They sit out there on a Sunday morning before any pub is open and at different times throughout the day.

There is a dilemma here. The Minister of State has said that there cannot be any more customers outside than would fit inside. All the publicans want to do, as Deputy Howlin said, is fulfil their primary purpose which is to sell alcohol but they have a relationship as well. This is not about them and us because we are in this together or whatever phrase was dreamt up with Covid. They look after their customers, with the ní neart a chur le chéile and the fáilte. The tourists love to see it and they love to meet bar tenders, to interact with them and to find out about the culture in the area and so on. People can congregate on the outside seating which is long and fronts a number of premises, including the Lazy Bean Café, a very popular eatery and several pubs, one of which has not reopened yet. How is a garda to determine, on inspection, whether the people outside are patrons of this, that or the other pub or the eating house? How are gardaí going to implement this silly provision? I urge the Minister of State to delete it. It will not be possible to quantify. It would be fine in situations where there is one pub in a village and nothing else around the yard or the public area but not on normal street scapes. We saw images earlier of crowds outside Kennedy's pub but we do not know where they were from. The barman would probably know because he is serving them but people can come and sit down and then move on again. They can sit down in passing when they see someone they know and talk to them for a few minutes. I know that the Government does not want us to talk to anyone any more. It wants this country to be a lonesome, cold place like some European countries where they do not engage with people. That is not the nature of the céad míle fáilte in the tigh tabhairne in Tiobrad Arann or anywhere else in the country. It is a cultural experience, a discourse, exchange and interaction with people. That is part of going into these places or sitting outside them.

This is not workable. It is nonsensical to say that publicans cannot have any more outside than would fit inside because people could be customers of a number of premises, or none. It is not workable. We are supposed to be introducing legislation to help An Garda Síochána who we must support when they are being fair and even handed but gardaí are going to be running around like ducks and drakes trying to find out whether people are in this or that pub. It does not make sense. If a garda or a health inspector visits a public house after hours or during hours, they deal with the people in it but when people are outside it is a different story because they might not be customers of the licensed premises. As Deputy Murphy said, they could have purchased their drink in an off-licence up the street and then sat down. How is the publican going to move them on? There are measures in this Bill that are supposed to correct the unintended consequences of earlier legislation drawn up to support outdoor dining and drinking but the Government is making a bad situation worse.

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