Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I thank my colleagues in the Social Democrats for bringing this forward. The Minister has been handed a hospital pass, pardon the pun. It has been handed down to him by bad advice from officials and his predecessors. He will have to, in some way, manage to take that pass and turn it around for the people of Ireland because he has no other option.

The letter from the St. Vincent's Healthcare Group yesterday was two fingers to the Minister.

I spoke to the Taoiseach yesterday in this Chamber and asked him straight up what was happening. He said the Minister for Health would be negotiating and talking with the hospital group as regards ensuring that the site would hopefully be gifted to the State. That is what I took from what he said, to be fair. I believed what the Taoiseach said was accurate and I believe that was the Minister's intention. I can see the Minister nodding. I accept it. I genuinely feel the Minister has been left in a situation now where he has very little options.

After the contributions made in the Chamber yesterday, and after the coverage in the media, the hospital group then decided to issue this statement, which gives two fingers to the Minister and to the Irish people. It basically said the Minister is not entitled to do those negotiations and it will not negotiate in good faith. The critical line refers to point 5, for the avoidance of doubt, which states that, "for the delivery of integrated patient care on the Elm Park Campus, SVHG must retain ownership of the site”.

The most important question to be asked in the Chamber today is "Why?" In fairness to him, I can guarantee that is also the Minister's question. Is it for the national maternity services of Ireland, as part of the greater national maternity strategy, of which I am a huge supporter? Or is it because the hospital group does not want to relinquish control? It is the latter. The documents, which the group had to release, in fairness, because my colleague, Senator Bacik, who has fought on this for years, submitted a freedom of information, FOI, request, demonstrate that.

This also demonstrates huge failures of the Department of Health and its officials in the way in which this was dealt with, which are nothing to do with the Minister. It completely missed the thinking of the Irish people and what the Irish people would tolerate.

Four years ago at our national conference, when this story broke, I stood up and got an emergency motion passed. We have been fighting on this for years, taking the advice of people like Dr. Peter Boylan, Dr. Gerry Burke and many others. There has been historic failure here. When one looks at what the Religious Sisters of Charity said it was going to gift to the State, under the transfer of holdings, one can identify when it got the permission of the Holy See. It got its letter of grant, as it is called, which stated:

The provisions relating to the validity and lawfulness of alienations, found in Canons 638-639 and Canons 1292-1294 of the Code of Canon Law and in Proper Law, are to be observed.

Canon 1293 requires the congregation to have "a just cause, such as urgent necessity, evident advantage, piety, charity, or some other grave pastoral reason" to make the transfer. That is the foundation of what we are talking about here. No hospital group with such a delineation and those conditions attached can be in charge of the national maternity hospital, full stop. If the foundations are wrong then the hospital cannot be built. I believe the Minister knows that in his heart and soul.

We are now scrambling. I would also like to know why St. Vincent's Hospital Group, which is willing to give a 149-year lease, is not willing to gift the site? Why is it such a big difference? That is another critical question because of what I just read out regarding Canon Law.

This is a crossroads for our country with regard to the influence of the Catholic Church, particularly, over hospitals, healthcare, education - over everything. The Minster has to make the right decision. I believe he wants to make the right decision. We will support him in doing so. The programme for Government, though, is deadly weak on this. It does not actually commit to it being a hospital in public ownership. It states that it will "Conclude the governance arrangements and commence the building of the new maternity Hospital at St Vincent’s Hospital, Dublin." It does not say it will be fully owned by the Irish people, its governance will be dictated by the State and the land will be owned by the State. It does not say that. The Minister will have to go further than the programme for Government commitments.

Options A, B and C as regards what was going to happen here have all failed. We are now down to option D. The Minister needs to have backbone here. He needs to have leverage. We do not have any options. Our options are either to acquire the site by means of compulsory purchase order, CPO - I say "we" because it is all of us - or else look at St James's Hospital or Connolly Hospital Blanchardstown. This has to be co-located for best clinical needs. After all the work that has gone into it, however, why should we move?

So my suggestion is that if it is not willing to gift the site, the Minister should acquire it with a CPO. Why only speak about acquiring this piece of the land with a CPO? We all know we need to invest in our national hospitals post Covid. Why not acquire the whole site with a CPO? I am sure that will make St. Vincent's Hospital Group think about what it is saying to the Minister and the Irish people after the two fingers it gave to everyone last night. Why do we not acquire the whole lot with a CPO and turn it into one national campus for everyone, which will be fully owned by the State, including the public, private and maternity parts - everything? I am sure that will give the Minister leverage. I am sure watching this debate will make the St. Vincent's Hospital Group think. We need to build up leverage here because this is completely unacceptable. What was done by the Department of Health here was so weak and wrong. The Minister has now been left to pick up the ball.

On behalf of the Irish people, I ask him please to make a decision. Either acquire the site with a CPO, or in my view, the best option here is to acquire the entire thing with a CPO. As the Minister knows, I have always believed in this. I am not being different in my approach; I have been saying it for years. Given what has happened the last 24 hours, this scenario has confirmed my view that that is the best solution to this situation.

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