Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputies for raising this important topic here tonight. It featured heavily in last year's election, but even before that because it was something that was debated quite a lot in the Houses, probably since 2007 or 2008. At that stage we needed to have a national conversation about it, which probably did not happen. It was not led by anybody at that stage but it is important that we are having this debate tonight and that the Pensions Commission is doing its work, which is leading the national conversation on the work we are going to do in this area as well.

As Minister of State in the Department of Social Protection, I welcome the opportunity to discuss the State pension this evening on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, and the Department. The Government recognises that the State pension age was one of the most important issues that arose during the last election. The public were very clear that they wanted a new approach and a new conversation in this space to see where we would go, bearing in mind that most people are responsible with the public finances and how we have to pay for all this as well. That is why, when we formed this Government, we gave it very specific attention in the programme for Government and set out a range of commitments on which we have been following through.

As per the commitment in the programme for Government, the Pensions Commission was established last November by the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Humphreys. As we are all aware, the public policy and social issues underpinning the funding of a sustainable and adequate State pension system are complex. The Government, therefore, wanted to get an impartial examination of the situation and an independent assessment of what would be required to sustain the State pension system and what may be possible for the future. Even all those who raised concerns on this around the time of the election and prior to it want to make sure we have a sustainable system in place that guarantees the funding will be there to pay pensions well into the future, not just for them but for their children and grandchildren.

That is the reason we established the Pensions Commission with care, ensuring it had a gender-balanced membership with extensive experience of social and public policy, and the necessary expertise to grasp the potential impacts of any proposed pensions reform options. The commission is examining both sustainability and eligibility issues in respect of the State pension and the Social Insurance Fund. In that respect, it has been asked to develop options for the Government on issues such as qualifying age, contribution rates, total contributions and eligibility requirements.

It is also considering the issue of retirement ages in employment contracts that differ from the State pension age, which I note is one of the points raised in the Sinn Féin motion. In addition, the commission is looking at the issue of pension provision for long-term carers, which all Deputies will agree is very important. To date, the commission has met on 15 occasions, with further meetings planned. As part of its work, it has held an extensive consultation with a wide range of stakeholders, including the general public, representative groups and associations, and national and international public and advisory bodies. As part of this consultation, the commission has received 220 detailed submissions. It has also conducted an online stakeholder forum, which included detailed presentations from a range of representative groups, and it has engaged with a range of national and international experts to inform its decisions in this space. Lest anybody be in any doubt, the Pensions Commission is very much getting on with its work, and rightly so. That is the challenge it was given, namely, to advise the Government in this space.

As a Government, we want the commission to be able to carry out its work independently and unfettered. That is why, as committed in the programme for Government, last December we passed legislation to defer the planned increases in the State pension age pending the report of the commission and its consideration by the Government. That decision was not taken lightly. We understood it was important to let the commission do its work and bring forward its advice. That measure will cost €221 million in 2021 and approximately €453 million in a full year. As also committed in the programme for Government, earlier this year we introduced a new benefit payment for 65-year-olds. People who retire at the age of 65 and avail of this payment do not need to attend an Intreo centre to sign on, they do not need to be available for or genuinely seeking work, and they are not required to participate in any activation measures. That was a sore point for many people. They felt that having worked all their lives, they should not have to join those queues, go to the Intreo service or actively seek work. It was a big issue and people did not like it. Even though it had been debated for years, it certainly was not communicated and people did not have the chance to contribute to that debate in those years. It was important that we paused this and took another look, while bringing in that benefit for the moment. Unlike jobseeker's benefit, which lasts for nine months, a person who retires at 65 can avail of the payment for the full year until they reach pension age at 66. That is dealing with another issue in that, under the previous scheme, the payment ran out after nine months.

It is important to note the social insurance contribution requirements for this payment are not as high as for receipt of the State pension and people retiring at 65 should, in most cases, easily meet the required PRSI conditionality. While it was only introduced in February of this year, there are already over 2,600 65-year-olds benefiting from the new payment.

Speakers referenced the issue of adequacy. From an adequacy point of view, the Irish State pension is regarded as successful at protecting pensioners from poverty. However, we also want to continually improve the pension offering, which we have done for many years through successive Governments, and to improve the rate at which it is paid in order to give people a more comfortable retirement and to enable them to have the quality of life they deserve. When increases are sanctioned, we will always have a view on pensioners living alone and those on single pension incomes in a household. We recognise the difficulties if people are living alone and trying to run a household. Pension rates in Ireland compare very favourably with other jurisdictions. Again, we recognise that is what is needed to give the quality of life that goes with that.

Sinn Féin members do not like comparing this to the North, where they have a decision-making role. When we compare this with the North, they always say it is someone else's fault, but the reality is that the contributory State pension here is over €248 and in Northern Ireland it is considerably less, at £175, or about €195. That is the reality. They will always blame somebody else. I know they are not in government there on their own but they are responsible for decision-making in the North, whether they like it or not. Repeatedly, we in the South are expected to judge Sinn Féin on what they say they would do if they were in government in the South, not what they actually do when they are in government in the North. We should bear that in mind when we have these debates. I am conscious the North gets an envelope of money from Westminster and I accept that too. However, there are decisions to be made as well.

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