Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Nonetheless, the powers are necessary. Notwithstanding Deputy Mattie McGrath and a few others, most of us in this Chamber understand why we need public health measures, why they have been important in terms of saving lives and why they need a statutory basis to be brought in.

Deputy Harkin and others mentioned that what we should be doing in this legislation is unwinding the measures and the powers. That is exactly what we are doing. The Bill does not seek to make any changes in terms of having more comprehensive regulations or measures in place. All that it seeks to do is extend the ability of Government to bring in measures. That is it. There is a lot of focus on the officeholder of the Minister for Health and the powers that I have, as the current holder of that office. I want to assure colleagues that these are regulations which are introduced by Government. They are not regulations which I, or we in healthcare, are coming up with and signing into law. The process by which this happens is that Government meets and considers measures, just as it will do tomorrow. What is due to happen tomorrow is another example of this. This evening, following this session, there will be a meeting of the Covid committee. There has been a lot of analysis done. NPHET met yesterday. A lot of analysis and thinking has been happening over the last few days and weeks in the build-up to tomorrow's Cabinet meeting. There will be memo provided at Cabinet, which will propose to Cabinet that various measures are undertaken. I imagine, hope and expect that when we meet tomorrow, it will be about the further unwinding of measures and the further relaxation of measures. What happens then is that I and the Department of Health take on board those proposals and we create the regulations in consultation with the Attorney General's office and other Departments and Ministers as appropriate. The regulations are then published and brought into law. I want to assure colleagues, in regard to these measures, that while under statute they are powers that are introduced by the officeholder of the Ministry for Health, the process is about decisions Government is making. They are not other regulations being brought in without Government decisions.

I return to Deputy Harkin's point that we should be unwinding measures. That is what we are doing in this legislation. To unwind the measures in a safe, sustainable way so that they do not all disappear in one day, which is exactly what would happen, we need an extension of the Act, via this Bill, to be able to do that. As we move further through the summer, it is absolutely my expectation and, I think, the expectation of all of us, that the regulations will become fewer and that it might be the case that by November - I very much hope it is November - there will be no measures in place. A number of Deputies asked why November. I am aware that amendments have been tabled on Committee Stage that it should be July. Most people would accept that having the measures extended for just a few weeks is not where we are at in terms of this disease. This disease is still very serious. We are stuck at in or around 400 to 500 cases per day. That level has not reduced. While severe illness and fatalities have reduced, the number of cases is still quite high. We are very concerned about the Indian variant and the impact it has had in parts of the UK. Most people would accept that we really do need measures for a while longer. As to whether that should be until September, October or November, I do not believe there is a right answer. However, we have from day one been public health led. The public health view is that measures of some sort are likely to be needed through the autumn and early winter. As an example, in September it is the hope of all of us that schools, childcare and third level education will return in full on campus. That is what we all want to see happen. It could well be the case that the public health view at that time will be that, for example, on third level campuses, it may be safe and prudent and cautious to begin with the wearing of face masks in certain settings. I have no idea if that is what will be recommended, but it is entirely possible that we will have variants like the Indian variant and others. It is the view of public health that up until then, it is possible that public health measures will be required, however minimalist they, hopefully, may or will be. To have those measures, we need to have the ability to make these regulations.

Tomorrow, I will seek Government approval to make a very significant amendment to the Bill. I have read the submission from the Irish Council for Civil Liberties, ICCL.

I have listened very intently to colleagues in this House and to the debate in the Seanad. I agree with the point that has been made in a wide number of places that we should not have the ability simply to roll on the sunset clauses again and again. Tomorrow, I will seek Government agreement to bring forward a series of amendments on Committee Stage to propose that only one sunset clause be allowed, for up to a maximum of three months but it does not have to be for three months, after which the Bill would fall. I hope colleagues will support this. Colleagues have tabled amendments on different versions of this with regard to timing, and I hope they will support my proposal.

I also hope colleagues accept that this is the legislative process at work. There has been comment that there has not been enough time for debate or oversight. We have spent many hours on Second Stage. The Bill has been through the Seanad. We will spend hours on Committee Stage. Through the legislative process the Bill is being amended in a substantive way. I hope colleagues recognise that this is oversight. This is the legislative process at work.

Some Deputies suggested that there has been very little oversight or transparency in respect of the regulations. On this, I respectfully disagree quite fundamentally. There has been, and continues to be, a vast amount of analysis done and it is available for discussion. The health committee and the sectoral committees can and do look at individual issues in their own sectors. They debate them. We have had debates in the House not every week but many weeks. Members can always table Private Members' Bills and motions. There is a facility for any regulation to be debated in the Oireachtas and annulled within a certain number of days of it being laid before the Houses. This mechanism has not been used by any Deputy in respect of the regulations put in place. I can certainly say as somebody who-----

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