Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal, Labour) | Oireachtas source

This is why I do not envy the Minister his task. A recurring theme of this pandemic has been what we just heard. I get what Deputy Daly says. When one takes issues in isolation, for instance, if such and such happened, one asks what is the risk of that, but when we were in the teeth of the worst waves, it was not necessarily the act of going for a run with a few people in the park that was dangerous but rather the cumulative impact of risk of people moving, congregating for a cup of tea or coffee afterwards and deciding that as they would usually go for a spot of breakfast afterwards, they might just do that. It is easy at this point when we rightly are feeling a bit more hopeful about things that we can look back at measures, take them out of context, and ask why do we need we to do this or that. We continue to make huge sacrifices.

This disease has had an unbelievable success rate in making fools out of many of us by constantly wrong-footing us. When we feel we are getting ahead of it then it comes back and bites. When it bites, it bites hard and puts pressure on our health system. People get sick, people get very sick and people have died and will continue to be so.

The success of the vaccination roll-out is what is different about this time. That is the factor in this debate at this point of extension, which requires some further discussion and teasing out on Committee Stage. We hit a wonderful milestone yesterday; that of 2.5 million vaccinations. That is incredible. Particularly over of the past couple of weeks where we have had a ransomware attack on our health service systems, that we managed to keep some critical health services going and managed to keep the vaccination programme on track is unbelievably commendable. In fairness, it goes from root to branch. It is the front-line workers but, in fairness, it is also the civil servants, the people in the Minister's office and the Minister who have kept that going. One has to acknowledge that.

It is that success that has given people hope. It is what we are expecting this week from the announcements regarding indoor and outdoor dining and a return to safe travel that is giving people hope. The Minister will understand that the date of 9 November jars with us, because it seems so very far away at a time when we are so hopeful about unwinding these restrictions and about returning to something of a normal life.

I came to the Chamber to listen to the Minister's opening statement. I requested a copy of it, which I received, because I was looking to see a deeper explanation of the rationale behind the date of 9 November. It was not there. Maybe the Minister will come back to that in his closing remarks or refer to it between now and Committee Stage because we will require some more convincing on that. With all the optimism out there, that is what we require and expect.

The Minister admitted that 80% of the adult population will be vaccinated by the end of June. We will have a safe return of some international travel. I have just come here from the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications, where we were meeting and speaking to workers from Aer Lingus. There is a heap of concerns. They have lost jobs. They are worried about losing more jobs but part of it was how do we return to safe travel, how do we test people who are working in aviation and what about vaccinating people who are working in aviation such as cabin crew. All of these questions are still out there. The vaccination is giving all these industries hope that we can return and that these extraordinary measures can be unwound. It is trying to find that spot that acknowledges that there is still an uncertainty with this disease and that we have variants of concern out there on our planet that are circulating.

We need to manage and be prepared for that and have resilience. We can do that without pitching the date of 9 November. We have had discussions on that in the Labour Party over the past few days. We know the Minister takes no joy in these regulations. No one wants to deliver these in any circumstances. I imagine the vast majority of Members of the House feel this way.

If reports are to be believed, the events industry as well as safe travel and indoor and outdoor dining will return in August or September. There are reports that people will be allowed back to view sports and it is to be hoped people will be at League of Ireland matches later this summer and into the autumn. All of this stands in stark contrast to the date of 9 November. We hope that, as we unwind, circulate and have an outdoor summer, numbers continue to be controlled. Let us be honest; they are not reducing as much as we would like. As the numbers continue to be controlled, it is to be hoped they will reduce and those who have been vaccinated will not get as sick.

I hope we will not see a spike in numbers in August and September because if we do, the 9 November date may seem more logical. At this remove, it does not. By 9 September, we will have seen what has happened over the course of the summer and the gradual unwinding. That would be the appropriate point for the restrictions to be extended to and, thereafter, the situation reviewed on a month by month basis. That would be our proposal. We feel it is a belt and braces approach that acknowledges what is happening at the moment regarding vaccinations and the unwinding of restrictions.

Regarding pre-legislative scrutiny, we understood the position when the world was in a mega panic in March last year. However, we need more scrutiny of the Bill now. We now have the time and space to do that. I am on the Business Committee and we are having major discussions every week to make sure we have enough committee time and venues. These discussions cause consternation, but it is vital that the Legislature continues its work. We have the time and space to discuss this in more detail and I ask the Minister to do that.

At this time, we have a chance to review the impact all of the restrictions have had on people. This is probably the first time we have had a chance to do that. My colleague, Senator Annie Hoey, in the Seanad debate on the Bill earlier this week, called for a human rights analysis of these measures to be carried out. That is a fair ask and would be the compassionate and understanding thing for the Government to do. I ask the Minister to respond to that.

We should not extend the measures beyond September until such a review has taken place. We need to ensure that the rights of the people we represent are respected at all times and the most basic tenets of democracy we are expected to uphold in the House are implemented. Will the Minister commit to a review in the House of how the laws are being implemented and how often they have had to be used before the end of June? I will raise this matter at the Business Committee.

Members of the public seem concerned about these measures continuing. I have had discussions with a number of constituents over the past number of weeks. Some people are coming from a very far right libertarian point of view, and that is not a view I share. Other people are coming at this from a human rights perspective and have seen people in their lives suffer under the restrictions over the past year because they have been harsh and tough. That is what is driving an awful lot of people, very understandably and compassionately from their point of view, to ensure that the restrictions do not have to continue for any longer than is necessary.

This is another opportunity for the Minister to be open, transparent and honest with the people we represent who have had to abide by these restrictions over the past 15 months. If they continue beyond the 9 November proposal, they will have been in place for over 18 months. We will see what happens during the debate, but at this stage we plan to bring forward amendments on Committee Stage next week to change the date, end the restrictions in September rather than November and implement the monthly legislative review on the effectiveness of the measures from the end of July onwards.

We want, and feel there is space for, more discussion. When it comes to Bills like this, we should be presented with as much information as possible, and more information than we have received thus far, on the effectiveness of the proposals and how necessary they actually are. We cannot just be a rubber-stamping tool. No one wants that. We want to pore over all of the details and have as much information as possible. We are coming off the back of the success of the vaccination roll-out. A few weeks ago, grandparents were vaccinated, followed by parents and friends. I look forward to when the vaccine is rolled out to people in their 30s so that I can get it. Every time another cohort is included, it brings more energy and greater hope that we will have a safe outdoor summer and be able to intermingle again.

It has gone unreported that very early on in the vaccine roll-out process people with mental health issues were included as one of the first cohorts. That was an important inclusion and was carried through by the HSE. We have so much more work to do for people with mental illness in terms of fully including them in our health service, breaking down stigmas and providing access to therapies and health services. It was very important that people with mental illness were included at the very early stages and that their physically vulnerability as immunosuppressed people was recognised. I commend the HSE and everyone involved in that decision because it has not been reported widely enough. It should not go unnoticed. That is the current situation and we look forward to further engagement on it.

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