Richard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent) | Oireachtas source

Essentially, this Bill is a move by the State to hand out the current work undertaken by the county sheriffs and registrars to regulated firms.

If we go back in time to 2008, we can see that the mortgage and bank arrears people suffered were actually caused by the banks. At that time, when people were going into arrears, they contacted the banks, who told them to keep up with their payments. Following legal advice, after getting into significant debt, the banks had to tell the people to stop paying altogether. They would not take a piece. They told them to stop paying altogether. Then the banks spoke to them.

We have seen people losing their houses under unforgivable circumstances not of their own doing. We are going to see people falling into financial debt because of Covid-19. We are going to see farms being sold without the farmers' knowledge. I know of one case in particular, where a farmer was losing his farm and people in the area came together and said that they would buy the farm, and supported the farmer's son to buy back the farm. They waited for the farm to go up for sale. The farm went on sale at a minute after midnight and was sold and taken off the system by 12.05 a.m. That is what needs to be regulated.

I welcome the stipulation in the Bill that any private firm must be regulated. I have listened to other Deputies in the House telling us of unbelievable circumstances in which people wearing masks have come into people's houses, kicked in doors and threw people out onto the ground in front of their children. That can never happen again. Sheriffs have often come and used the local knowledge of Deputies to help people in difficult circumstances to get help. At least they have local knowledge and will ask for local knowledge and help. Will the private firms do that?

I welcome the part of the Bill which states that these firms are going to be regulated. It was mentioned earlier that private security workers in a nightclub must wear a security number. I completely welcome such measures. I give praise where it is due.

However, during the Covid pandemic the banking sector let us down again. The only ones that stepped up to the plate were the credit unions. At the time, the banks said that they would defer loans for people during the pandemic but they would not extend the term of the loans. They said that they would defer payments for three, five or six months but they would not extend the term of the loans. That means that when things pick up again, that people have bigger payments to make for the same term of the loan. That is not helping. What did the credit unions do because they are local? They deferred the payments for the three months, then extended the term of the loans. Looking at what credit unions have that others in the banking sector do not have, they have people at the counter who know customers by name and not by account number. The banking system operates through credit cards and has moved online. I spoke to a butcher the other day who told me that he had just got a loan. He sat down behind the counter during a quiet minute, applied for a loan on his phone, was accepted and had the loan in place within five minutes. However, he said that if he ever got into trouble, he would not be able to fix it as quickly on a phone, because there is no one to speak to.

I do not blame the people in the local branches of the banks because the power in the banking sector has been taken away from those in the local branches with the local knowledge, and it has been moved to a central bank to show that it is being dictated by somebody wearing a big pinstripe suit, who is not even based in the county where the local branches are located. They are making decisions in respect of people who have loans with the bank. There has to be a box-ticking exercise.

I mentioned the credit unions because I am a great advocate of them. They have helped many people. Looking at their history, they have local knowledge and will help people, which is brilliant. However, the power in the banking system has been taken away from the managers within the banks to deal with local issues. That is what is wrong. It is not banking in each individual sector. The issue is that everything has been removed from the local branches.

As I said earlier, many people are going to be in debt after the pandemic and they will need our help. However, the avenues have to be there from the point of the registrar and the sheriff. They must also play their part, because they have local knowledge. We do not want to see people wearing balaclavas coming in, not even from within Ireland. That happened over 100 years ago and people fought to make sure that it would not happen again. We must ensure that these firms are well regulated and they do their job properly. There are people who are in debt through no fault of their own and there are others who are in debt all their lives and that is how they live. There are people who never want to pay back a loan but want to borrow all round them, who are running from debt all the time. Those people must be dealt with. However, there are genuine cases of people who are in debt through no fault of their own and need help. Those who do not want to involve themselves or get into negotiations, or have a past record of not paying their debts, need to be dealt with. The good people of Ireland far outweigh that small minority. The closure of the loophole will help to resolve that issue.

An amendment to the motion on the Project Ireland Plan 2040 tabled by the Rural Independent Group is being voted on tonight.

With the way things are going, that plan will lead to more debt for people in the future. The Government is capping the number of people that can live in towns and villages because of its failure to invest in infrastructure. It is saying to people in business that they cannot expand unless their business is in a large city or town. Only a certain number of houses will be allowed to be built in an area, provided the sewerage system has capacity. The Government is now saying that the sewerage capacity in towns and villages will be upgraded but will not allow for extra capacity. This means that people in small towns and villages will not be able to build their businesses.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae spoke about how, in 2013, the then Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, told farmers that milk was the new white gold and they should invest in large sheds to hold extra cattle. People invested in their farms and machinery. The farming community and people in rural areas have done a lot from an environmental point of view. They bought cars that produce fewer emissions because there is no infrastructure in rural areas and no bus services. They have invested in new machinery. In the 1950s, it used to take a farmer a full day to cut 10 acres of grass. In the 1980s and 1990s, when the silage was at its best, it would take a whole day, on a good day, to cut 20 to 25 acres. Today, with the investment in low-emissions engines and machinery, and with good conditions, farmers can cut 20 acres in an hour.

What does the Government do in response to those actions? It penalises the farming community. It tells farmers to expand and then it penalises them. They took action on emissions and were penalised for it. The Government gave grants to farmers for equipment to help the environment, but 80% of the work done on farms in this country is done by contractors. The Government will not allow the same grants that are given to farmers to be given to contractors, even though they do 80% of the work and are investing in low-emissions machinery. When Brexit came along, Revenue turned around and said to people wanting to buy in a truck from the UK that if it was a special type of truck, like a mixer truck or articulated truck, there would be a 2.75% to 3.75% charge to bring it into the country. In the case of eight-wheel trucks, however, the charge is between 10% and 16% because, according to Revenue, they are not dump trucks because they are not articulated. It is clear the people in Revenue do not know what goes on in a rock quarry. A dump truck does not have to be articulated. When people want to upgrade their trucks to be more efficient, by using AdBlue or investing in a new euro 6 engine to lower emissions, what does the Government do only increases taxes. This is making it harder for the people who are investing and trying to help the environment.

I welcome what is contained in this Bill. Will the Minister of State support us when the vote is called on the Rural Independent Group's motion on Project Ireland 2040? I ask that he vote with us to allow people to invest in their communities. We must avoid having a bigger crisis on our hands and more vulture funds coming in and trying to sell off farms. The plan will prevent people in rural communities, towns and villages from expanding their businesses and being able to live where they were born and reared. It will stop people who had to leave the country from returning home. I am a culchie and proud of it and I always be. I am not from the city. However, I will do my part, along with all my colleagues in the Rural Independent Group, to help the environment.

The biggest polluter in this country at the moment is the local authorities, which was proven in a report produced by the Office of Public Works, OPW. It is not the farmers who are polluting. It is the local authorities, as stated by the OPW. That is happening because of the lack of investment by the Government. In the case of my local authority in Limerick, for example, the Government has not provided funding to upgrade sewerage systems. What is the Government's answer? It is to impose caps and prevent people from building. When businesses cannot invest and grow, they will get into debt.

We want equality for rural areas. I will support the Bill for what it is and the improvements it brings. I am asking the Minister of State to come back into the Chamber later and support us in our efforts to ensure equality for everyone in Ireland, whether they live in rural areas, villages, towns or cities. The Land Development Agency, LDA, was set up to invest only in the cities. It has offered nothing to rural areas, villages and towns. The Minister of State is here to represent the country on behalf of the Government. I am here as a member of the Rural Independent Group to represent rural areas.

Our banking system destroyed us and now we are implementing certain measures in this Bill because gurriers were attacking people in their homes. Some of the people who were attacked got into trouble through no fault of their own. I agree that we have to regulate the industry. I am taking this opportunity to ask every Deputy to support our motion when the vote on it takes place later this evening. It is a vote for equality for everyone in Ireland and a vote for the right to live in one's home area and invest and grow one's business there. Helping people to do that will also help their communities and allow everyone to grow. It will help people to afford their own homes. The Government cannot supply the housing need that currently exists. It has done well with this Bill and I will support it. I ask the Minister of State and his Government colleagues to support the Rural Independent Group and, in so doing, support everyone in the country to live and grow.

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