Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Bill. Over the past number of months, I have heard the Minister, Deputy Ryan, talk about the number of houses that will be retrofitted over the next decade and what we can do, especially for older people. Today is Thursday. Earlier this week, I saw two letters issued by Roscommon County Council to elderly people regarding grant aid for older people for the installation of new windows or doors or upgrade work to roofs and so on to make houses more energy efficient. My understanding is that the council budgets commence in March. It is now only May and Roscommon County Council has issued letters to people telling them that all of the funding has been allocated. This comes at a time we are hearing daily from the Minister about the proposed retrofitting and refurbishment of houses.

In the previous Dáil, I sat beside the Minister in the Chamber, where we had many a good chat. I am surprised at how undemocratic this Bill is. It provides for a five-year carbon budget, but regardless of how it is going, the Minister can overrule it. That should not be provided for in any Bill. That power should lie with the Parliament, but under this Bill that will not happen. There is another issue which has surprised me. I have seen this previously with regard to people appointed to boards. In this instance, I am speaking about the Climate Change Advisory Council. There is a person sitting on that council who has publicly stated, more than once, that half the national herd should be got rid of. I do not think that is a prudent thing to do. People who have made rash statements like that, who have been appointed to the council, should rethink where they stand on this issue. Appointees need to have an open mind and cannot be saying this, that or the other in the media. The Minister needs to look at this because he appointed the chairperson. It is a worrying development that before we start off, there are people who are totally opposed to the type of farming that is carried out in the agricultural sector. This is the first issue that should be looked at.

In talking about the climate Bill, let us go down the road of electricity. We hear nothing anymore other than that there will be wind turbines. We hear that there will be 1 million electric vehicles on the road and that there will be 500,000 houses reliant on electricity for heat. A week or ten days ago, I watched an RTÉ programme filmed at Moneypoint, during which I heard references to hydrogen commencing in Moneypoint and to wind turbines being out on the sea almost straight away. We need to be honest with people and tell them that a project involving wind turbines out on the sea from its infancy can take between ten and 14 years. It has to go through the planning process. Anybody who knows Moneypoint and the surrounding area knows there is a dolphin sanctuary there and that it is an area where it would be pretty tough to get planning permission. The impression was given - this is the spin that is going on - that we are almost ready to turn Moneypoint on to hydrogen, that the turbines will be on sea and there will be heaps of jobs. That is rubbish, because that is not going to happen. During that programme, businesspeople were interviewed who thought they were coming on stream in the next couple of months. That does not happen overnight. We need to be clear with people on that.

We have shut down the power stations in Shannonbridge and Lanesborough, but we have oil tankers going into data centres in this city where the ESB will not guarantee power. That is some contradiction. Approximately seven or eight oil tankers per day are coming into this country and all the while we are talking about plans for a clean environment. I will make a prediction on the record. On the basis of everything I have learned from talking to people and the experts, in 2027 we will be in real danger of not having power. We are jumping from one thing to the other. It needs to be borne in mind that the Corrib gas field will be gone in 2027. Some people are opposed to a gas terminal being located at Moneypoint along the Kerry-Clare border. If people continue with the "we cannot have this, this or this" we will be like a car with three wheels and we will not be able to go anywhere.

On transport, we have had several reports on the western rail corridor. In Galway, the home of the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, they talk about light rail. This is all hypothetical stuff at the moment because no funding is being put together to make sure that some of these projects are delivered. Since I was knee high, I have been hearing about the western rail corridor and what would be done, including if it would bring in people from Tuam and Claremorris and if could it be extended to Knock. In Dublin city, a quick solution could have been found. It is probably one of the only cities in Europe that does not have a rail line from its main airport.

That is phenomenal.

We talk about the number of electric cars that we will buy or have on the road, but do we consider people's incomes or the cars' cost? Most people in rural areas buy second-hand cars for between €5,000 and €10,000. You would not get an electric car's battery for that.

Under this climate Bill, it seems like we in this country will nearly become sales people because we will tick a box saying that we will be classed as the clean, green economy. That will not work, though, because it will not create enough jobs. Under the current plan, the Government is happier to see briquettes coming in from Germany, Estonia and elsewhere than it is to tell Bord na Móna's workers in Offaly to keep making briquettes until 2030. They are 15% moisture and meet all the various criteria. The Government is happier to bring milled peat into Ireland in order to keep the mushroom industry going than it is for us to mill our own peat. We seem to be happier to bring in biomass from Brazil - I would like to see proof that it is not part of the rainforest - and South Africa than to have it made in our own country.

The problem is that, under the Minister's Climate Action Plan, we are to plant 8,000 ha of forestry per year, but we have not even hit a quarter of that amount since 2016. We have a Minister of State from the Minister's party who has been told this time and again but keeps talking about new ideas, we have a Department that is dysfunctional and the Government is in denial about it all. Still we write up on the chart that we will plant 8,000 ha every year. At the Joint Committee on Agriculture and the Marine, we pull out our dashboard and look at it weekly. If we are talking about planting 8,000 ha, we must give licences for 10,000 ha or 12,000 ha because a certain amount of applicants will never plant. If someone is waiting three years, he or she will certainly never plant.

The Government talks about how organic farming will be the new way forward. In 2016, 1,663 farms were involved in organic farming. In 2017, there were 1,558. In 2018, there were 1,800. That was 137 more, but fewer for a number of years. A few months ago, the Government announced the new organic farming scheme with great fanfare and claimed that 400 to 500 farms would be brought into it. Today's figures tell the Government what the farmers of this country think of that scheme and the way the Government has gone about it. Only 317 of the country's farmers have applied for it. Does that send a message to the Government that something is being done wrong?

The Government talks about the new results-based environment agri-pilot programme, REAP, scheme. I remember speaking to the Minister about carbon budgets and so on. The carbon tax will move to between €80 and €100 per tonne. We were told that a great deal of money would go to the agricultural sector in a new environmental scheme. The new REAP scheme provides €4,700 plus €2,200 more if a farm has designated or double designated land, which is like trying to climb to the moon. The old green low-carbon agri-environment scheme, GLAS, was €300 more at €5,000. We have gone backwards.

I cannot understand something. If someone applies under the new REAP scheme, one can only include the land he or she included previously. If someone wanted to include a bit of wetland, bogland or whatever, it could not be included because it had not been included previously. What is the mentality of the people who draw up some of these schemes? Did they ever stand on a farm? Do they understand agriculture? They have read about it as an leabhar, but they do not understand it in reality.

Under GAEC 2, or the good agricultural and environmental conditions, farmers in the west and north west especially will face a situation where there will be two different systems under a derogation - we call it an amendment in this country but, funnily enough, the EU calls it a derogation - and they will be put at risk of their land not being classed as eligible. Speaking about climate, this is some of the best land in the world. If they are put out of that, what is the future for that rural family? What is the future for the next generation? What is the future for the community in that area?

We see the usual suspects in the media talking about agriculture and its emissions. They say that Ireland's figures have increased or whatever. We have not included our hedgerows, although in fairness to the Minister, he is trying to do that now. Have we carried out proper research on grass being grown and eaten? Have we carried out research on barley, wheat and other crops? What is the plan or vision for rural Ireland?

A cut to the national herd will not be tolerated. I can tell the Government that straight up. Covid will go and there will be a revolt by the people of rural Ireland for a simple reason, that being, farmers are trying to make a living. They are the custodians of the land. We come from a managed landscape. They are the solution to much of this, but they will not be price payers at the same time. I will give an example that relates to the Government's fancy new carbon tax. Consider a contractor cutting silage with the self-propelled forage harvesters, BiG Ms, loaders and tractors that are needed for the job. With increases in the price of diesel and the carbon tax, that contractor will pay €450 more per day. From where will that money come? The farmer will get hit once again.

We need to ensure that we use the carrot, not the stick. People in rural areas are sick and tired. I have heard about rural transport. A Bus Éireann route that had been servicing Cloonfad for the past 30 years has been cut, yet the Minister talks about there being more buses. We cannot talk out of both sides of our mouths. While the Minister gets the support of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael Deputies in the House because they want to stay in government for another while, they will face the electorate yet. I can tell the Minister one thing about rural areas - if those Deputies tell farmers X, Y and Z about what the latter have to do with the land they own, there will be a different story at the next election. Supporting this for the sake of staying in power will not work.

As was pointed out earlier, people are sick and tired of what companies in places like China and America are doing. These people in agriculture are guardians. They can look after the environment and they have done so. They will not be talked down to. Let me be clear once again. I even heard this mentioned last night when many of us Deputies were attending meetings. Those people made it very clear that the Government can hide for so long behind Covid-19. The minute Covid has cleared and we are at a different level, politicians in Dublin will get a horrid shock because rural people are sick and tired of what is going on.

I heard domestic turf cutting spoken about earlier. Domestic turf cutters fought a battle before and we will fight it again. We stood up and made very clear the idea of enough turf for one's own house and fire. In fairness to the Minister, I heard him speak about domestic turf cutters a few weeks ago on RTÉ. Whether it is the Minister or somebody else, however, let them not think that they are going to walk on top of the rural people. We bring in these things almost to try to put them out of business.

I mention the higher price of diesel, for example. At one time, kids were brought to school. Now, the buses going to schools have been cut. The bus routes are being cut and yet here we are in this fantasy of a place in Dublin talking about having more public transport and more of this or that and it will all be great and rosy.

The Minister spoke about the number of houses that will be retrofitted. Think of the two people, one of whom is 69 years old and the other 67, who got letters this week informing them there is no money to help them with their house. Think of that when the Minister is talking about 500,000 houses. I mentioned this when the budgets came in two months ago. They generally come in March. Think about what councils are seeing. It is not their fault because they are getting it from central government.

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