Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I would like to follow Deputy O'Rourke in offering general support for this climate Bill. We believe, however, there is room for improvement, and in this regard we will be making amendments on Committee Stage. There is nobody who does not accept the reality of climate change and its impact. I accept the Minister's statement that we are dealing with a pandemic that may have resulted from the fact we have absolutely failed to look after the natural world. The necessary buzzwords relate to the fact we need to make changes but that it needs to be sustainable and renewable. We need full support in that regard.

We have noted that there will be differing views on this Bill and the climate change measures that need to be pushed through. There is an element of failure on the part of the Government and others to sell the reality of what they are offering to people. Deputy O'Rourke mentioned the great need for public consultation. In this regard, we think of rural Ireland, agriculture and bodies such as the IFA and others that represent farmers' views.

Deputy Carthy, when he was still an MEP, and I attended a meeting of Louth IFA in Monasterboice. One of the issues on the table, with which the IFA was dealing, related to accepting that changes were required, accepting the circumstances in which we found ourselves and admitting we needed to tackle climate change. There was much discussion and the farmers talked about the huge issue of their work on biodiversity and so on not always being recognised or taken into account when talking about Common Agricultural Policy, CAP, payments and other matters. At the meeting, there was a group of people who saw change was coming down the line but who needed interaction with the Government, not in the sense of the Government pontificating to them but in the sense of offering solutions. We all accept we need to deal with emissions and we need targets. We all accept we need interim targets and some element of policing in that regard, but we also have to offer people the benefits of the Green New Deal. We have to offer individuals benefits.

The carbon tax has not done any great favours. It is just seen as a tax on poor people. We have not given people the alternatives. We do not yet have retrofit programs that are fit for purpose. We need to deal with all these issues. There is an onus on the Government to sell this. There are changes that are necessary but we need a conversation with all the stakeholders. Otherwise, we will have nothing but strife. Deputy O'Rourke said that all people hear when there is talk of climate changes is cost and more cost. They have to see a roadmap that takes their needs and wants into consideration. They need a sustainable roadmap that delivers for the natural world and us and that offers sustainable transport, particularly public transport. We also need solutions in this regard on a North–South basis. I would like the Minister to address that issue. I accept there are difficulties at the minute in that we have not been able to have a meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council. I hope this, among many other issues we are dealing with, can be addressed.

We are talking about a Bill that we can enact with no worry but we are consistently being told we need to sign up to the EU-Canada Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA. The difficulty with that is the investor court system. We have a difficulty with the legislation because it did not deal with fracking, for example. If we were to ban the importation of fracked gas, we could leave ourselves open if we were to sign up to the investor court system. All agreements being made internationally at the minute are moving away from investor-state dispute settlement, ISDS. On the question of continuing with the provisional application that exists, it is a matter of not hampering ourselves and of giving ourselves the power to bring about real and meaningful change.

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