Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 5:

In page 4, to delete lines 1 to 5 and substitute the following: "(i) shall hold public meetings (except in such serious and limited circumstances as may be prescribed by law, such as an emergency period, where the holding of such a meeting is not reasonably practicable, in which case a planning authority shall make auxiliary arrangements for effective and all-embracing public consultation as it regards appropriate) and invite submissions in writing from members of the public, in relation to a proposed development plan, and".

As I said earlier, the Rural Independent Group tabled this amendment because this is a very important issue. The holding of public meetings is a fundamental part of our democratic process and our engagement with the public on planning matters. I referred earlier to the alienation of people. They are being alienated slowly but surely by big business and by the Government's inability to embrace them and engage with them. Public meetings have served us well for many decades, since the inception of our State. We acknowledge that we are currently in an emergency situation because of Covid-19 and we have allowed for that in our amendment. However, people must have the right to have a public meeting. There is nothing comparable to a public meeting. I am talking about civil, courteous public meetings. I have attended many and have chaired quite a number of such meetings. Many are held in community halls and are chaired by the chairperson of a community council or sometimes by an sagart paróiste or duine mar sin. There is great decorum and the planners come, engage, talk and listen. The odd spark might fly when people get emotional but in general, such meetings are conducted with decorum, in a proper and dignified way. People can get a better understanding of, and feeling for, a plan. They feel that they have ownership of the plan when they can ask questions and get answers. Some will be satisfied and others will go away, think further and possibly engage consultants. In general, these public meetings are very productive and attendance at them is a good civic act. We should be encouraging more of that, particularly by young people.

Younger people have no problem at all with Zoom or with remote meetings but people my age - I am 62 - and older are not as confident about attending meetings online. Anyway, as other Deputies said earlier, it is often not easy to attend online. It is not the same as being able to have physical engagement, to read people's body language and so on. Looking at a computer screen is not the same. Furthermore, people might not be able to get into a meeting when they want to and may be inhibited in that regard. Where I live in Tipperary there are approximately 24,000 homes that do not have a proper broadband service, which means the occupants are denied access to the public consultation process. They are denied completely.

I was accused by a Labour Party Deputy this morning of fomenting an urban-rural divide between Dublin and the rest of the country. I do not know what part of Dublin he represents but I believe him when he says that the broadband service in his area is very poor. Indeed, I see it when I am travelling in and out from Bray in the morning. When I am halfway in, the mobile coverage disappears completely. It has been like that for the last three or four months so there is obviously a blackspot in the middle of the city, not far from RTÉ. There are enormous problems with broadband connectivity all over the country. One could spend all of one's time trying to get a phone line or to get a phone line repaired by Eir. It is a complete no-go area.

The public must be embraced and we must honour their constitutional rights. We cannot introduce legislation like this just because of Covid-19. I have seen very little legislation repealed in my 13 or 14 years in this House. Very little legislation is ever repealed. In terms of the Covid legislation and the review clause for November, I am not sure if that applies here. I ask the Minister to clarify that but I do not think it applies. As I said, I have not seen much legislation being repealed.

It is vital that we encourage more participation by the public and that we encourage communities to come together. We have seen the way communities are being thrown together in big developments. Indeed, under Project Ireland 2040, the Governments wants them all herded into big areas and it is often very hard to get the nucleus of a community in such circumstances. People have to work very hard, the outliers and the inspirational people, to get together and develop a community. I know of estates in Tipperary town that have been without street lights, footpaths or proper sewerage for eight or nine years, which is so dangerous. There are others including Monard, An Dúiche in Scallagheen and Ardfinnan. It is unfair on people who have made the investment and bought a house. They did not ask the State to buy it for them but now they cannot get their estates taken in charge. There are problems with sewerage, water, lights and so on. These are busy people but if they want to come together to form a group and have a say, they cannot do so. Since the arrival of Covid, they cannot have meetings inside and so forth. While they were making some progress, albeit slowly, now everything is stalled. In the bigger estates that I am talking about there are 100 or more houses and not a chink of light. We are talking candles here. It is like the Peep o' Day Boys back in the time when we did not have light. The late, great Canon Hayes used to say that it is better to light one candle than to curse the dark.

These people are living in appalling conditions. Children are out in these estates where there are no lights and it is so dangerous nowadays. Cars are going through and, although there are chicanes to slow them down, huge difficulties arise. For some reason or other, Tipperary County Council did not get a bob to complete those estates from the last round of money. They are dealing with bonds in some cases but the developers have gone west or to America or Canada. It is not fair to treat people who put their hands in their pockets, got mortgages and built their homes in good faith in this way. Planning permission was granted but planning enforcement was lax or did not happen. Many cowboy builders were allowed to do what they liked.

I addressed earlier the issue of the shooting range in my area. People are afraid for their lives. It never had planning permission. It was built without it but it somehow got a licence from the Department of Justice, although it should not have. That has now been revoked by Inspector Mark Allen and Superintendent Denis Whelan. There was a prosecution and the courts gave community service to the offenders.

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