Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputies. The section indicates a credit union "may" and I keep referring to that word. We are here to facilitate and help credit unions run their businesses and the conduct of voting at an AGM should be regulated by the credit union's own rules, which vary between such credit unions, rather than through legislation. The big change we are making in this legislation is to allow an extra three months for the process, and this requires legislation because a date is specified in legislation already tying it to the end of January.

On the matter of these meetings being conducted in different parts of the country, we have all spoken about the integrity of the board of directors and key staff. We should not tie their hands too much in legislation. The section states: "A credit union may provide for participation in a general meeting by providing or facilitating, for that purpose, the use of electronic communications technology, including a mechanism for casting votes by a member, whether before or during the meeting." A vote could include a postal vote, for example. I am speculating but if people said they could not make a meeting on a Monday night and a proxy vote is either not allowed or desired, there might be the option of putting a ballot box in the credit union or wherever the AGM is being held so that people can cast the vote an hour or two beforehand in the afternoon. There is scope for people to participate in an AGM perhaps by casting a vote by postal ballot in advance. A credit union would not be excluded by having a ballot box at a particular location in the head office, for example, for 24 hours before the meeting if people want to vote on the day but cannot make the meeting.

I hope credit unions will take such flexibility on board if they feel it is in their interests. The Deputy has mentioned that somebody could have 200 proxy votes but I cannot envisage how any credit union would amend rules to allow anybody to have more than a handful of votes to facilitate family member or a neighbour who cannot go to the meeting. If a credit union went to a very high number of proxy votes per person, it would be open to some big risks and it would be very hard to see how that would pass through an AGM. Other people would feel they would be outvoted by others with a large number of votes. I am being practical. If some credit unions want to go with ten or 20 proxy votes, although I would not personally recommend it, they can make their own rules. The number of votes that would at any stage be allowed by proxy will be quite limited.

We know what is different here and it has been mentioned that it is the DNA of credit unions that there is one vote for each member. Everybody understands that. When we speak of proxy votes in the Oireachtas, people think of companies and shares where a shareholder may have 25% of the shares. That shareholder can give a proxy vote to somebody else. In limited companies with shares, voting strength is determined by the number of shares and it is not a case of each shareholder having one vote. One shareholder could have the majority of votes in a company. We often think of proxy votes in that context but the credit union movement has a principle of one vote for each person. I expect the credit unions will keep very close to that even if they are of a mind to move a little away from it to facilitate older people who might not be able to make a specific meeting, for example.

I take the point about the nomination committees. There are practical issues involved. We should not hold up the legislation with this and it is something credit unions might discuss. They can consider if there is a mechanism to get the nomination committee report to members immediately before the AGM rather than being physically distributed at the meeting if some people cast their votes beforehand.

People may want to hear the nominations board recommendation at the meeting and some credit unions may use this as a reason not to introduce early voting through postal votes. People would vote at the meeting if they are there, online or in another mechanism. It may be a reason some credit unions may not go down the early voting route while others may be happy to do it. There is flexibility and, from a practical perspective, each credit union would have to look at a mechanism to have the nomination committee's report out before any of the members cast their vote if they choose, at a local level, to allow early voting.

I am trying to be fair and reasonable. We are trying not to be overly prescriptive and we want to give maximum latitude. I take the point but we are not saying "On you go". The argument I have heard since taking this role is that there is too much regulation but we are allowing scope on this. The credit unions normally complain about too much regulation and the additional associated costs. Members know that just a short while ago we reduced the levies that the Central Bank imposes on credit unions by more than 50% for the coming year. It is an indication of our support of credit unions and acknowledging where they are.

I am answering Members' queries as best I can and in good faith. We all have trust in the credit union movement to do their business properly as best suits their local needs. That is why I do not wish to include the amendment. This been through the Seanad but we want the legislation finished well before Christmas and signed by the President as quickly as possible.

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