Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy. To deal with his last point first, there were consultations with the Central Bank. The existing legislation would allow the Central Bank, using its discretion, to defer AGMs until the end of April in any event. However, we believed it necessary for the Oireachtas to decide to put that on a legislative basis. There is provision in the Bill for further extension of the period within which an AGM must be held if the Minister is of the opinion that is necessary. We are having this debate substantially because the physical meetings cannot go ahead because of Covid. The whole concept behind the legislation is to facilitate credit unions, rather than to oblige them to do something.

I am coming to the issue of proxy voting. These are what I would call governance and operational matters. The legislation will allow flexibility in that regard. I do not think the legislation should be so prescriptive as to set out in legislation strict rules on proxy voting. The practice in that regard will vary from credit union to credit union. All we are saying is that credit unions may bring it in if they so wish. The obligations in respect of GDPR and confidentiality in the context of such issues will be a matter at operational level within each credit union that chooses to go down that road.

We have received correspondence from various credit unions and credit union representative bodies, including the Credit Union Managers Association, pointing out that it will be difficult. I agree that it will be difficult. It will the first time for organisations that wish to go the virtual route to do so. They will have to consider security and how they will ascertain who is logging in to the meeting. Ireland has grown up a lot in respect of virtual meetings since Covid came. There are sporting organisations and farming organisations, including large farming organisations, that are holding virtual AGMs because their members cannot physically come together. Those organisations are not prevented from doing so but credit unions cannot do so unless we pass this legislation. The point of facilitating virtual meetings is to allow meetings to happen such that all the members can get the financial information in a timely manner. It is also important for the audits to be completed and sent back to the Central Bank, which is the regulator, such that it can have a full view of the overall position of the credit union movement as soon as it is fair and practical to do so. This legislation aims to facilitate all that. The only real power being given to the boards of directors during this interim period is to permit them to arrange the AGM after 31 January.

I stress that I already took the Bill through the Seanad. It was passed by the Upper House on 30 November.

Arrangements are in place for an tUachtarán to sign it promptly, and credit unions know that this is coming down the tracks. They will be in a position to arrange AGMs as soon as they have an ability and are free to do so as early as possible in the new year, if they wish. Some of them might decide to wait and see what health restrictions are in place in February or March and wait to hold the AGM then, and they are free to do that. Those who wish to do it early can do so by carrying it out virtually if the health restrictions would prevent the members coming together for a physical meeting. It is important to stress that an AGM can be a combination of a virtual and physical meeting.

On some other points, I understand what Deputies are saying about the issue of people voting in advance, but some credit unions might wish to allow members to have a postal vote. It will be up to each credit union through its software suppliers to ensure the integrity of the voting, that each member gets only one vote and there is a link and a code to link into the system. It will have to have a system that knows who sent or has not sent in a proxy vote. I wish to deal with the proxy voting as well and the 48-hour provision in the legislation. That is the latest possible time. I expect credit unions to have a system in place whereby they would request their members, if they are arranging proxy votes, to have it in four, five or six days in advance. Legislatively, however, the last possible moment will be two days in advance of the AGM.

There was a question about some credit unions that traditionally hold their AGMs on a Monday, which would mean a great deal of work having to be done over the weekend by the organisers of the meeting. It might involve weekend work or they could easily move the AGM to a Wednesday or Thursday or another day in the week that would not involve the 48-hour period covering a weekend. After they get used to it on the first occasion, they will be well able to carry out the proxy voting on the second occasion. That is if credit unions choose to go down that road. Most of them might choose not to because of the concerns of members, while others might feel it is appropriate in family circumstances to allow the one, two or three votes. It is also important that the legislation provides, which is obvious, that a person cannot nominate two different people to be their proxy vote, with two people arriving as proxies for one individual. That is specifically in the legislation.

I hope Members will see that this Bill seeks to facilitate the credit union movement in the future. The only thing we are facilitating is the board of directors proceeding with an AGM early in the new year, if it wishes to do so. It can do it virtually. The board can make that call. I also wish to refer to the reason for the seven days, if we move to the seven-day period. Many people might get the notice of the AGM, have a look at it the following weekend and see that they must give in the details of their proxy a week in advance of the AGM. People tend to make up their minds closer to the deadline. They can still send it in up to seven days before the AGM, but we are providing that the latest time for its receipt is 48 hours. It could not be any closer as it would not work physically. As with most things, I hope people would not wait until the last minute, so it will not be necessary to have that big gathering of proxy votes. Again, most of that can be done physically. Some of it will be done virtually as well. I hope the software will be in place to facilitate the credit union movement. Many people have had to make arrangements for new technology, so I believe it will be able to do that. They are the main points about the proxy. I understand the concerns, as they were my immediate concerns. However, when I looked at the details of the legislation, it was clear.

The final point raised was how soon the credit unions can have their AGMs. Clonmel has been mentioned in the House by every Deputy from Tipperary in the past week or so. That credit union habitually held its AGM before Christmas so it could give members an interest refund. That was strictly its local arrangement. Nothing in the legislation impacts on that. It was traditional that the credit union had its AGM early so it could give an interest refund to people before Christmas. I have made a practical suggestion. Many of its members might be happy to wait until it has its AGM early in the new year to get that refund, but the credit union will know the members who were reliant on getting that money before Christmas for the Christmas shopping. It will know how much a person was due to get in a refund had the AGM taken place at the usual time. The credit union and the member will be well able to make arrangements to tide the member over until the AGM early in the new year.

I believe I have covered the points raised. I might have strayed into one or two of the other amendments, but they are all germane to the credit union legislation.

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