Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Bhí an-spéis agam sa mhéid a bhí le rá ag an Teachta romhaim. Tá cuid mhaith den cheart aige. Mar, ar ndóigh, tá ollfhadhbanna sna cathracha, go mór mhór i a Dháilcheantar féin. Before the Deputy leaves, I would just like to say that I listened very carefully to what he said, and he is absolutely right that there are mega-problems in our cities based in the communities.

The Oliver Bond flats were prominent in the news recently. I know that complex quite well. I have a very good friend down there, a lady called Liz O'Connor, who I got to know when she was on the area implementation team, AIT, when we had the RAPID programme. The idea of RAPID was to put the people who live in the local authority estates at the centre of development. When I was Minister, twice a year we used to have a convention in Pearse Street in Dublin of all community representatives from the AITs around the country. These were the people who lived the experience, not all the professors and all those who lived in much more affluent areas. These were the people who lived in the communities, dealt with the drug problems, lived with the antisocial behaviours, and tried to raise their children and progress them on to better things against the odds.

I fully agree with the Deputy that one of the greatest mistakes that was made in 2011 and 2012, was to abolish the RAPID programme because it was not costing anything. I have a suspicion that the programme was not too well liked for the reason that we had set very defined boundaries, based on Trutz Haase's analysis of the most deprived areas in the country, every one of which were urban areas, and we made sure the money was spent within them. Of course, when they got rid of the boundaries and the AITs it was easier to spread the money around outside of those areas, even though everybody who knows anything about these areas realises they are the areas with the most severe problems in the country.

I have always believed that urban deprivation, where we push more and more people unnecessarily into cities, many of whom do not really want to be there, is the flip side of the issue of rural depopulation. When I walk the houses of rural Ireland I find there are some exceptions. Where there is relatively good housing and good conditions there is relatively little antisocial behaviour and there is good community life, but the only problem is that all the young people are gone. When one does an age analysis of these communities, one finds a very narrow number of people living there full time who are between 18 and 30 years of age, and it widens, going up instead of narrowing. We need to tackle this unnecessary movement of people whereby we have under-utilised facilities in one part of the country while in other parts we are pushing people in and cannot keep up with demand for schools, social services and medical services.

In the few minutes left to me I want to address what is our vision of rural Ireland. I have noticed that for the past ten years every time we talk about rural Ireland it seems to only consist of towns and villages. Every reference to the rest of the people, 30% of the national population, is to those who live in the periphery or in the hinterland, as if they did not live in real places and as if they were not part of a real community. Any of us who have experience of living in rural areas know that sometimes those communities are far stronger. I have lived in both. I spent my formative years in Dublin and I have lived my adult life in the country. Years ago I was a Minister in the Department with responsibility for community and rural affairs. The Department is a very fine thing but it only touches the tip of the iceberg of the problems of rural Ireland. We were told of a budget today of some €190 million. Rural Ireland needs the exact same services as the rest of the country. It needs health, education, roads, sewerage and all the rest. In reality, the shots are really called by the other Departments.

We first need to decide on what our vision is. Do we want a peopled countryside with a balanced population or are we happy with a dying countryside with only old people left and all the young people gone away? Covid has shown us two things, one of which is to give people the opportunity and the basic facilities, and the right to build a house. They will flock back in good numbers. We need to get that basic, philosophical point established. Do we want a purely gentrified countryside with no businesses in it? Do we ban all of those businesses by saying they have to be in the towns and that a few craft businesses will be allowed as a little concession, but just small little things and not any serious businesses? The businesses in my community employ hundreds of people, and why not? If one tried to put the businesses near me in the city or in the town people would be giving out and would oppose the plans. Where we live, in some of the most scenic parts of the country and with the hidden gem of the Joyce country, there is also major industry.

We need facilities. I will mention something that is not in the lexicon at the moment. I built a number of greenways. I started the greenway thing when I was Minister but in rural Ireland a greenway is for recreation. I walk more than most. So far this year I have averaged 10 km every day. That includes good days and bad days, so some days I am doing up to 20 km and some days I might only do 4 km or 5 km. Is anyone really suggesting to me that, since I live 32 miles from Galway city, when I go to Galway I should hump my overnight bag and my two or three briefcases, put them on my back and hike it to Galway? I need roads. The first thing one finds in rural Ireland is the LIS road. We use local roads, tertiary roads, the county regional roads, then the national secondary routes and eventually the primary routes. We need safe ways of getting from place to place.

We need water in the remaining houses that are dependent on private supplies, which are variable and are not as well tested or as good as a public supply. A small number of these remain to be done. We had a great scheme under the CLÁR programme and were tackling them rapidly. That problem could be eliminated in the country but the scheme was pulled. We need sewerage facilities in the unsewered villages. We are always talking about people settling in villages but how can they settle in an unsewered village?

It is ironic that building in cities, maintaining buildings, knocking them down, rebuilding and regenerating is much more expensive per head of population than in rural Ireland. Usually, when people build in urban Ireland they are using the existing road and electricity is pervasive so it costs half as much to connect through the local supply passing one's house. In rural Ireland, one pays to connect the water and if a person does the bit of his own land himself, he still has to pay €300 per metre for the bit of the road if he cannot get it outside his gate and so on. When people build, there is no huge infrastructural cost to the State. However, massive amounts of money are being given, necessarily, in cities to provide the basic infrastructure to allow houses to be built. We need a real debate, not one with the leprechaun view of rural Ireland that sees it as a pretty place for people to go on their holidays and to look at some of the remaining natives and say how quaint they are. We are living, vibrant communities with young people who are as smart as in anywhere in the country. People should have a choice about where they live. It should not be dictated by Europe or the Dáil but should be something people have a basic right to decide.

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