Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I concur with the remarks of my Kildare South colleague on the Defence Forces in general. The issue of the Defence Forces has been with us for a long time. Hopefully, it is not being ignored. I am told that it is not and I hope matters will develop in their favour in the not too distant future.

The Finance Bill gives statutory effect to the provisions of the budget and I congratulate the Ministers and the Minister of State for the provisions they have introduced so far. This is a challenging time in which we find ourselves. Challenging times have not gone away, nor are they likely to in the short, medium or long term. I am strongly of the opinion that the Government should remain alert at all times over the next 12 months to issues that may arise and situations, as have been referred to by a number of speakers, of people who fall through the cracks of the system and who, despite the best efforts of the Administration, find it difficult to survive. Those issues develop as time goes by in a negative and particularly incisive way for the people who are affected. Points have been made by previous speakers on all sides of the House on this situation.

Covid and Brexit present huge challenges, not only for the Government of this country but for those of other countries as well. That is likely to continue for the foreseeable future. The sad and unfortunate part is that these two issues have been outside the control of any government in this country and, as far as Covid is concerned, is outside the control of any government across the globe.

It is timely to reflect on the situation that has been referred to in respect of housing. A huge demand has been creating a backlog for some time and it has not been addressed because it could not be addressed - first, because of the lack of resources during the economic crash and, now, followed by the challenges of Covid, which again put huge stress on the wherewithal to make substantial provisions to address these issues.

A number of speakers referred to the length of time it takes to process applications for various types of assistance at present. That does not apply to everything but it certainly applies to some things. For example, there were the local authority small dwellings Act loans under the 1966 Act which people below a certain income limit were entitled to in years gone by. It can now take up to six months to process the equivalent of one of these loans through the local authorities. I am told the reason is the number of provisions and requirements and that it is not possible to produce the approvals any quicker. I remember when it was possible to bring one of these applications into the local authority on a Monday morning and have it approved on Thursday. That day has long since passed but if we want to put our finger on a button, that is one that needs to be looked at as a matter of extreme urgency. There is no sense in standing idly by and saying this is terrible and that we need to do something about it. We need to do something about it and it has been done before. I remind myself and everybody else that the local authorities are not banks but a housing authority. Housing is a huge issue at present, has been for a number of years and will remain so for the foreseeable future unless something dramatic is done to address it.

The other thing I will say on housing is that this impacts largely on young people and first-time buyers, who are at a huge disadvantage at present. They cannot compete in the market with those who have direct access to more liberal financial institutions or whatever. The simple fact is that house prices in this country are way too high. There is no sense in people pretending that that is what they are valued at or whatever the case may be.

I carried out an experiment over the past ten years along with a number of other councillors whereby we thought it was possible to build houses and make them available to people who were financially qualified. We proved it was possible to provide a house for first-time buyers at less than half the cost of houses on the market at the same time. They were brand new houses and we went through all the procedures and bought the sites. What happened after that was ironic. If circumstances change, as they will, and people have to move on and sell, there is a clawback from those people as these were allegedly subsidised sites. No reference was made to the fact that they had bought the sites as well. It annoys me intensely that we have not been able to do anything about this over a long number of years. It is no good blaming the present Government or the previous Government: it is over a long number of years.

There was a system called the shared ownership scheme which was intended to assist those on an income below what would gain them a loan in the commercial market and above what would get them a local authority house. There was a provision whereby roughly half the mortgage was on rent and the other half was on the mortgage - half the value of the house and half the equity. What happened was that somebody decided to improve the situation. There was a system whereby the rental part of the equity was approximately the same as a local authority differential rent. However, somebody decided to increase it by 4% per annum. Ten years in the position left them with a 40% increase which meant they could never get out of that spot and would always have to remain where they were or rent from some landlord somewhere else. Many people objected to it, as I did. Whoever the person was who put that barb into the housing situation has much to answer for because it created a huge housing problem which continues in this country and will continue for a considerable time.

A time when we can all make a constructive contribution to economic thinking in this House is budget time and the time of the Finance Bill. It was always the case that the Minister, and I am glad to see the Minister of State present, took into account the issues raised by Members and these were brought to the Department and acted on. Sometimes they were acted on quickly and sometimes they were not. That was the system and it worked extremely well. I have severe doubts as to whether it applies in the same way nowadays.

We also have Brexit and it is not on its own, as we all know. It is Brexit along with Covid, and the two together is a double whammy.

It is one of the biggest challenges we are ever likely to face. We have all discussed this and the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and I do not agree on some of the issues, as we pointed out to each other yesterday evening. We have a responsibility to the health of our population in the first instance, the people who are here now and their children. We have a responsibility to children, the middle aged, the elderly and the vulnerable. We have a first responsibility to those people and it is our duty, as caring citizens, to make sure that we do the best that we can to look after their interests. Restrictions have been identified as necessary, as I believe they are, but we have a choice. We can ignore these restrictions and go about our business as if there is no threat at all. We can continue to consort and fraternise as if there is no challenge. If we do that, we will pay a price for it. If we ignore the issues raised by our health services and experts, we will pay a higher price. It is important that we recognise that it is possible to fight this pandemic voluntarily by simply following the restrictions. If we do that, we will not need lockdowns and shutdowns. We will not need to impose penalties and the Garda will not have to enforce restrictions. It is in our own hands. It is voluntary, highly effective and efficient, and workable. It is a matter for ourselves to take it into account. To follow the restrictions would be beneficial to the entire community from an economic point of view.

I hope we can continue in this vein. This is now an economic and budgetary issue. It will impact not only this generation but future generations. It will seriously affect the well-being of this country's economy. If we do not look after the well-being of our economy in the next two, three or four years, the children who are now being born may have to carry the burden for that in the future.

I will issue a slight warning to us all that we have to pay back the moneys that we are now borrowing. The simplest way to do that is to achieve economic growth in the interim whereby our debts in proportion to our economic development come together, as it were, or merge. We do not want to start to recover money by imposing steep and sharp penalties. I have noticed that my colleagues from around the House have referred to draconian issues but few people refer to what happened before Draco. Poor old Draco gets blamed for everything now but before he introduced his system, a long time ago now, the alternative system was much worse and involved execution, beheading, garrotting and major slaughter. Draco is now reviled and I am not suggesting that he be brought back, but I remind people that things were an awful lot worse before his time.

We want also to recognise that the threat of Brexit is not of our making but is of the making of another country. For some unknown reason, right across the globe, we are going through a period of renationalisation and a reassertion of nationalistic values that is not welcome. I and people of my generation thought that we had overcome those issues because of factual experience and unfortunate developments that took place throughout the 20th century. Unfortunately, people's memories are short enough and we are where we are. There is a series of stark questions in front of us now. We must ask ourselves have we the resolve, resourcefulness, ability, courage and stamina to tackle this matter head on because it is a big challenge.

We were reminded, some time ago, by a minister in another jurisdiction that a little touch of starvation might bring us to our senses. I do not think it is necessary to go down that road. That is an unfortunate road on which we dwelt for many years. I will simply say that I support the Government's efforts to bring about an ordered withdrawal of the UK from the EU and an amicable resolution to Brexit, although I do not know whether it can happen or not. I am worried, as the deadline comes closer and closer that there is a danger that the small player in such a field can get squeezed. I acknowledge the support that this country has received from our colleagues across the European Union. I am conscious of the fact that we owe them a great deal for their solidarity towards us. It would have been just as easy for them to walk away and pretend it was not happening. They did not do that. They stood up to their commitment. They are still doing that and I hope they will continue to do so.

I also hear people expressing the sentiment that we will have to do something. We will have to do something but the danger is that, when we are in a tight corner, we might do something that is not in our best interests. We should recognise that we are equals in this debate and that, as equals, we stand our ground, do what we have to do, hold our heads up and maintain our position. That is the way to get the best possible result. That is still available to us.

I am not making a political point when I say the following, but we have all had occasion to point out the advantages of the all-Ireland, all-island economy and the way it has operated. We know that for the past 25 or 30 years, we had all of that. We have been free of the Border and able to travel from one end of the island to the other without restriction on investment or jobs, or access to those things, and it has worked extremely well even though we had emerged from a difficult era for peace on the island. It has been without a doubt the best of provisions and it was there in the nick of time.

I do not accept the notion that we should not offer to our colleagues on the other half of this island an alternative to a united country. We should not tell them, "A united Ireland, or else." I know that is not what is intended. There are some times when it is insensitive and not a good time to face one's opponent with an obligation to concede or leave the field. That does not work and has not worked in the past. We have a tragic history in that regard in this country. We need to be conscious of that as we move into the future.

We also need to make provisions to be able to sell our goods and services unimpeded right across the globe as members of the European community. As time passes, obstacles that we have not foreseen may arise. I compliment our negotiators, the former Taoiseach, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, the current Taoiseach and other Ministers on the manner in which they have handled Ireland's position through the EU and the way that the EU has responded. It is in stark contrast to other issues that have arisen in other countries all over the world. We have shown solidarity. We have stuck and stood together and supported each other in a time of crisis.

I hope this Finance Bill meets its targets in full. If it does not, and if a need for modifications arises in the course of the year, we should address that. We need to look again and again, as time goes by, to see where the Bill has had a negative impact and do something about it as required. There is not much sense in waiting for a year or two before we wake up to those impacts. I believe that we have the wherewithal to do these things. I believe we have the resilience and determination to do these things. I also believe we have an obligation to do these things, not only for ourselves and the present generation, but for future generations.

We must also invest now in the youth of today, the young home buyers and householders who are entering the phase of their lives where they have significant responsibilities and challenges. We need to support them in the ways I and others have referred to. If we stand together and recognise each other's position and the challenges faced and we address them, we will prevail.

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