Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

It is very useful that we have this opportunity to speak about Covid and the impact it and the restrictions have been having since the country moved to level 5 on Wednesday evening. I also think it is important that we keep a broad understanding of where we are as a country in trying to resolve these issues and measure our approach to the Covid pandemic.

It has to be pointed out that there is a second wave of Covid happening throughout Europe. We are not unique in respect of this matter. If we look throughout Europe, whether it is Germany, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, France or Spain, we can see that the number of positive tests of Covid-19 has been rising significantly in the eight weeks since the beginning of September. It is also important to point out that if we were here a number of weeks ago, people would have been praising countries such as New Zealand and Australia but they would also have been mentioning Germany as a European example of a country that was doing particularly well. However, we can see this is a virus that moves very quickly, and no matter what great measures a state has in place to ensure it is kept suppressed, it cannot be fully controlled. This is what we see from what has happened in Germany in recent weeks.

We also need to recognise that Ireland has to be realistic about what we can achieve in our response to the pandemic. I listened to Deputy Paul Murphy speak about the elimination strategy, not necessarily getting the rate to zero but trying to eliminate the transmission of the disease. My assessment is this is not feasible. If we look at what we did in western Europe during this year, we can see it is most unlikely to occur. Throughout Europe we had the first phase, which took place in March, April and May, and then in most of Europe we got the figures down very low in the summer months of June, July and August. They rose again throughout Europe in the autumn months. What it reveals to us is that this is an extremely contagious and infectious disease and no matter what efforts are put in place by the Government, it is extremely hard to control it.

People now refer to what is happening in Australia and New Zealand as being examples of countries we need to follow. It is instructive to note, however, that although New Zealand had significant successes, in recent days there have been cases of Covid there. We need to have a broad perspective that this is a disease that will be with us and we will not be able to eliminate it, in the same way as we have not been able to eliminate other diseases such as the flu, even though we have a vaccine for it.

It is always important when discussing how the country is coping with the virus that we do not concentrate exclusively on the cases. As we know, significant numbers and percentages of people who test positive for Covid-19 are asymptomatic and are not in any way what could be described as sick. Nonetheless, there is obviously an importance to knowing about these figures because these cases can transmit the virus. It is much more important to look at how many sick people there are in the country at present arising from the Covid pandemic. To do this, we have to look at the number of people who have been hospitalised. Today, the number of people in Ireland who are in hospital with Covid is 311. Of these, 37 are in intensive care. Let us look at where we were a week ago. There were 244 people in hospital with Covid issues and 31 in intensive care last week. Let us look at where we were two weeks ago. There were 179 people in hospital with Covid-19 two weeks ago, of whom 31 were in intensive care.

The reason I refer to this is that while it is very unfortunate that these people are in hospital, and I wish them a speedy recovery, we need to recognise that the rates of increase in hospitalisations and ICU admissions are different from what they were in the first wave. Two weeks ago, there were 31 people in ICU with Covid, whereas today there are 37. Let us go back to March and April when the disease was at its most dangerous until now. The day we were told to stay at home was 27 March. On that day, there were 380 people in hospital with Covid, of whom 68 were in intensive care. The week after that, there were 704 people in hospital of whom 137 were in intensive care. A week after that, on 11 April, there were 856 people in hospital, 155 of whom were in intensive care.

What is apparent in this country and throughout Europe at present is that although the cases are significantly larger in number than they were in the first phase, the number being hospitalised and, more importantly and fortunately, the number of deaths is not at the same level as it was in the first phase. Every death from Covid is a very traumatic event for any family member, and I pass on my condolences to anyone who has suffered a bereavement as a result of Covid, but when we look at where we were in April, 1,176 people died of or with Covid in that month. To date in October, approximately 67 people have died of or with Covid. We are dealing with a different strain and impact of the virus in this second wave than we were in the first wave. There are more cases but the number of people being hospitalised, the number in ICU and the number of deaths are considerably lower. This is a factor that has to be taken into account when we come to assessing what public policy measures we should put in place to respond to the virus.

New restrictions came in at midnight on Wednesday when the country went to level 5. That was a very difficult decision for the Government but it was a decision that was made by the Government. I am a Government TD and I recognise it is a decision the Government deserves support on from its TDs. It is incumbent upon all of us to ensure that level 5 works but it is also important to point out that people in Fianna Fáil and other parties are entitled to express their own views. As the Leas-Cheann Comhairle will appreciate, there is a danger in the fact that every party in the Dáil seems to express the same policy in respect of the restrictions. I support what the Government is doing but we must be very careful, as a political body, that we do not allow groupthink to enter into our deliberation. We need to keep our horizons broad. We need to consider whether this is the correct strategy and we need to probe strategies in this legislative assembly so that we can achieve what all of us want to achieve, which is the best outcome for the Irish public.

My concern about the restrictions and going into a level 5 lockdown, which probably will reduce the numbers by 1 December, is that inevitably they will rise again and we could find ourselves going back into another lockdown in February. That is not a sustainable solution. It is not acceptable for the people of this country to be exposed to lockdowns every three or four months. It is not consistent with what we are trying to do in this House. What the Government and all of us are trying to achieve is that we can live with this virus which, unfortunately, will be with us for quite a period of time.

The reason I am concerned about the impact of level 5 restrictions is that they have negative consequences. The point about the virus is that we can see immediately the negative consequences that arise from it. We see it in the approximately 1,800 deaths. We see it in the hospitalisations. We can see immediately the consequences of Covid-19 on the community and on people in nursing homes and care homes. What we do not see at present, however, are the consequences of the restrictions. They are something we need to consider because one of the functions of a politician is to try to see ahead so that the consequences of any decision we make can be assessed.

As I mentioned previously, I am extremely concerned about the consequences the restrictions will have on the mental health of people in our society. I am also extremely concerned about the consequences the restrictions are having upon the lives of young people. I have mentioned that repeatedly in the Dáil. I mentioned it as far back as the beginning of May. In effect, we cannot ignore that the education, employment, entertainment, travel and relationships of young people have all been affected. That is not to say restrictions should not be in place but they are certainly factors that should be taken into account. There are people who have started their university experience. Their university experience is that they are sitting at home looking at lectures online on their laptops.

With regard to employment, youth unemployment in this country is now at 37%. We need to recognise that a significant number of the people who lost their jobs from Thursday morning were young, low-paid workers. I do not believe we can sustainably continue in the long term with repeated policies that are damaging to the lives of young people. That is something we have to factor into our deliberations.

There is also the economy. When people talk about the economy they sometimes think we are balancing the economy against individuals' health. I am not, and anyone who talks about the need to protect the economy is not either. The important reason we need a functioning economy is that we can pay for a health service and ensure all the other vital services are provided.

We need to consider the repercussions the restrictions are having that may not be evident today but will become evident into the future. What we must do, however, is ensure that we protect the vulnerable and the elderly who are the people who have suffered the most as a result of this pandemic. In particular, we have to ensure our nursing homes, care homes and the elderly in our community are protected. Irrespective of whether we are at level 2, 5 or 25, we have to try to do that because there is no point in saying we have gone to level 5 so that means the elderly are protected. They will not be protected. We need to ensure that care homes and nursing homes across the country are fully protected and we need to put in place a protocol to ensure the elderly people in them are so protected. The reality, however, is that we will never be able to fully protect people from this dangerous virus. No country in the world has been able to do it and I do not believe we should place unrealistic goals before us when we know they cannot be achieved.

Political controversy has arisen because of the dichotomy and divergence between NPHET and the Government. In fairness to the people in NPHET, it is important that we emphasise that it is a body of advisers. They are civil servants within the Department of Health and the HSE who provide advice to the Government, and in particular to the Minister for Health, on the issues pertaining to Covid-19. They are also responsible for co-ordinating our response to Covid. It is wrong, however, to allow NPHET to be presented in the political realm as the decision making body. It is not. The Government is the decision making body. It is a group of advisers. We need to recognise that and the public needs to be informed of that because if we do not do that resentment will grow among the public against NPHET, which is an unaccountable body. We need to see more of the Minister for Health, and the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, who is in the Chamber. They need to be leading it. The politicians need to lead the public face of this because it is politicians who are accountable and they can be removed by the public if we fail.

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