Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent) | Oireachtas source

There is an amendment before the Dáil and it looks like we will not reach the others. I am on the point of giving up but then I realise what a privileged role I have. If I am at the point of giving up, what is it like for someone who has been through the process? I do not like emotional arguments and I think we have a duty not to be emotional because, while emotion is good, we have a duty to hold the system to account. That is what democracy and being in Opposition is about. I have asked the Minister repeatedly about the sixth interim report and he has finally said, on the advice of the Attorney General, that he cannot publish it. That is mindbogglingly difficult to understand. Earlier, the Minister told us he would publish it when the report was published. I do not know what the connection is between the report which the Minister will receive, which will go to Cabinet, then the Attorney General and then be published, and the sixth interim report, which I presume is one of the reasons that we are in a mess, and the Minister will not publish it. Will the Minister please tell us why it cannot be published? What has the Attorney General said is so difficult in that report that we cannot be party to it? Does the Minister realise what he is doing over and over again? The patriarchal voice is deafening, that they know best, they know most and they will release a little bit. It is happening again here.

The Minister said that he tried to release one significant part, which he gave to Tusla. On what basis can he pick out one part and not another? He said the report has been delayed often but he does not say why it has been delayed. As somebody who has been critical of the delays, I stood up yesterday and put that in context. The delays are not caused by the action of the commission. Please read the reports. It was initially surprised by the number of people coming forward.

I expressed my opinion on that. How could anyone be surprised, in light of our history, that people were just waiting for the opportunity to speak? The primary reason for the delays relates to gathering the documents. The knowledge was spread among many institutions and had to be collected, and orders for discovery had to be made. We must remember the number of bodies involved. In addition, there were delays on the part of various Governments in publishing the reports. Some of the seven reports were published more quickly than others. Some were published within a week or a few weeks, while others took six months. Significantly, the sixth report has not been published.

The Minister states, in the guise of serving the survivors, that we do want to hurt them anymore and want to publish the report as soon as possible. Why do we not ask them? The Minister might be surprised by the answer. Since they have waited through seven requests for extra time, síneadh ama, they might be quite happy to wait a little longer, if that is necessary. I do not believe it is, and I will return to that. However, if it is necessary, I am sure they will tell the Minister if he asks them. Is he aware of the words "consultation", "hearing", "listening" and "reflecting"? They are all part of a process. Let us ask them. They might say that they will wait a little longer for the report, instead of rushing through very bad legislation from a patriarchal authority that is telling us it knows best.

I wish to be specific. What has the Attorney General said that stops the Minister publishing the sixth interim report? Why is his advice on that so different from the advice on the other reports? Was it advice from the Attorney General that delayed the other reports when they were delayed? I asked the Minister to outline the interaction he had with the independent commission. It is independent of politicians. What interaction has there been? Why has the Attorney General been - and who else has been - in contact with an independent commission about a report we have not seen? I asked the Minister to clarify that matter. We set up an independent commission. We were repeatedly told it is independent and I accept that, but then the Minister tells us the Attorney General has been in repeated contact, although I do not wish to use the wrong words, about a sixth interim report we have not seen. Then the Minister tells us that is okay.

There are many solutions to this. What we are trying to tease out here is what the problem is, before we give the solutions. What problem are we trying to address here? We are not trying to address the delay with the commission submitting the report. That is not a problem. It has explained seven times since 2016 the reasons for delays. The reasons were coherent and understandable. In addition, it has pointed to other issues. For a long time it has been communicating with the Minister about what is going to happen with the body of documents it has collected. The Minister has been on notice, so there is no reason for urgent legislation this week. I come from a city and county that is struggling like the rest of the country with Covid, including in the nursing home in the Galway East constituency. We should be putting our energy into that, instead of trying to cope with a legislative measure that has come straight out of a Kafka novel. The Minister tells us he is doing that for the survivors, because we cannot disappoint them any more with a report and there cannot be any more delays. We are to praise the Minister because he has saved a significant part of this body of documents and given it to Tusla, without him explaining why he could not save the rest of it.

The Minister has extended the commission's term until February, so it will not yet be dissolved. We are having Jesuitical arguments - the commission is in being, it is not in being, the commission is dissolved and it is not dissolved, depending on the day or the month - but there is no information about what interaction there has been between an independent commission and the Government that established it through the Dáil, the voice of democracy. If the Minister can extend a commission to February for one purpose, why can he not extend it, if necessary, for another purpose?

I did not intend to contribute again. I tend to make my points and sit down, but there has been a mixture of emotions and thoughts in my head as I listened to this. If it is like this for me, what is it like for those outside who have been affected by this as we continue to use this patriarchal language that is designed to obfuscate, hide, deflect and pretend - cur i gcéill i nGaeilge? Is cur i gcéill amach is amach an méid atá ar siúl anseo agus ní féidir glacadh leis. Beidh mise ag vótáil glan in aghaidh an Bhille seo. Tá sé dochreidte go bhfuil an tAire ag leanúint ar aghaidh ag cur brú orainn glacadh leis an mBille nuair nach bhfuil gá agus nuair nach bhfuil sé sásta míniú a thabhairt maidir leis an séú tuarascáil nó an t-idirghníomhú idir an Rialtas agus an coimisiún, atá in ainm a bheith neamhspleách. Tá an tAire ag rá linn go bhfuil sé á dhéanamh sin ar son na mban. Tá an Bille agus an próiseas seo maslach amach is amach.

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