Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I will try to be brief as I had an opportunity to speak last night. I listened to the Minister's contribution and I commend the colleagues who have spoken. I refer again to the matter of the sixth interim report and why it has not been published. The former Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Katherine Zappone, asked on a number of occasions for it to be published and several speakers have already spoken about it. Why has it not been published? The Minister spoke about splitting the report and sending some of the data to Tusla for the reasons he stated. However, the other half of the material will be sealed for 30 years. Is the issue one of concern about what information is contained in the other part of the material? As the last speaker said, the Minister does not know what is in it and nor does anybody else, although we can suspect and surmise. We are all well aware of, and can speak frankly about, the collusion that took place between the State, the church, solicitors and so on. We have all heard the statements and testimonies of survivors.

Listening to the majority of speakers on this side of the House, it is clear the biggest concern is that we do the right thing. It has been said over and over again that we are rushing through very bad legislation. I said last night that a bad law is an unjust law and an unjust law is an injustice to the people to whom we owe it to get their testimonies heard. I join a previous speaker in calling for the publication of the sixth interim report. Let us have the evidence. In any case in any court, under any law and in any country, one is entitled to all the evidence before making a judgment. It may be unintended but the Minister would be letting down himself if he does not ensure all the evidence is available. This is not a personal attack on him. I understand that whips are being cracked and I have appealed to Deputies in other parties to do the right thing.

This is about dealing with historical abuse. It is about telling the truth so that this type of thing never happens again. We are 60 or 70 years on from some of these events and we are going back to the same thing again. It is an Irish way of doing things to believe that if we do not talk about something, it will go away. If we push it under the carpet and say nothing, it will not be seen. That has to stop. My worry is that the report is so damning and puts so many people and organisations on the hook that the Minister is doing what he is doing through fear of letting down a few and, by doing so, he is letting more suffer. We are well aware that chemical trials were done in these places, which means pharmaceutical companies were involved, with the backing of the State, local authorities and the courts. I am concerned that the Minister would sooner cover up that and protect those involved and, as a consequence, let the few survivors who are left, and their children who are also suffering, suffer until they die without getting any justice whatsoever.

We all come into this House with strong beliefs, although our beliefs are different. We have had discussions on this issue on several occasions even during my few years as a Deputy. It has become even clearer to me over the past two days that people on this side of the House are genuinely concerned about the issue and really want to do the right thing. We have all made appeals to the Minister and I will do so again. Will he go back to his own party, Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil, sit down with his colleagues and tell them that there have been a lot of valid points made in this House? It is not about being nasty and it certainly is not about scoring political points. The Minister can hear that the tone of my voice is a lot different from what it was yesterday. I have been in constant contact with survivors, even while sitting in the Chamber, and they are not impressed. That is being very polite. They are not impressed with what they are seeing.

One person texted me a while ago to say their heart is sinking and they are losing faith. The Minister is where the buck stops this evening. The Minister is the one who will hold all of these records. He has the power to make a stand today, to turn around to his own party and the rest of the coalition and say for once in his life he is going to do the right thing, to stand up and show all the cards on the table without caring who has the four aces or the two jokers. The two jokers are going to be out. I appeal to the Minister to listen to this side of the House, to listen to the speakers who have appealed to him tonight and not guillotine this debate tonight. I do not want to be attached to it. We all make mistakes. God knows I have made so many I could write two books on them. I would probably have seven or eight reports. One puts the hand up when one makes a mistake and, if brave enough, apologises. It has gone on for too long. It is now the chance for the State and everybody else who colluded in the abuse of these people over the years to stand up and be counted, put up their hand, say they made a mistake and move on from that. If we bury this and guillotine it tonight we will be back here again because we will rehash something. We will need to come back in again. We might need to go outside the jurisdiction, but these people deserve the honesty and the truth. They need to know what happened. As I said during last night's debate, they went into this process, not to tell their stories to be famous, but to tell the story so it would never happen again.

There has been a little bit of coverage outside the House in the media. Again, I believe it is shameful because what has happened here is an absolutely massive blimp on Irish history. It will be remembered by me and others and at least we will be able to pass it on in stories. If the Minister does not do the right thing tonight he knows what will happen when this information is locked up. This is a generation that does not have 30 years left in their lives. Most of these survivors do not have 30 years left to live. Many of their siblings will not have 30 years left to live. The Minister has said that while some part of it has to be hidden he does not know what is to be hidden, but I suspect that with this 30-year rule it must be fairly dangerous if the Government does not want it in public. But they are not telling the Minister. Does the Minister understand what I say? Those generations will never see the record and then it disappears. That is wrong. I ask the Minister to get off the high horse, shrug down the shoulders and go back in as a team manager to say we are changing tactics here, this is a different game now, to get out there and tell the truth.

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