Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I appeal to the Minister. I cannot believe what is going on here. The Green Party is in government with the two big parties, which have had a hand in dealing with this matter for a long time now, and it is colluding to keep these records and have them put away out of reach for 30 years.

The records we get from the National Archives are the subject of 20- or 30-year limits. These survivors, Gold help us, have suffered long enough. Some of them have suffered for 40 or 50 years. What is the Government trying to do by adding a further 30 years? The Government has made all sorts of excuses and offered all sorts of platitudes and some of its backbenchers have said that what it is doing is right. I do not know that it is and I do not believe the Government is making a proper effort.

The Minister mentioned a briefing but the Rural Independent Group did not receive any briefing from him and I do not think we were invited to it either. I stand corrected if we were but I did not see anything like that. We would like all groups to be treated equally here. We have all met the survivors and I met them earlier. I met Rosie McKenny and her daughter Mags. Those outside need justice and I thank them and their supporters for the many thousands of emails they have sent us over the last number of weeks and for their dignified manner. One could see the raw emotion, the hardship, the pain and the trauma in their writing, in the phone calls and of those who we engaged with on the street here. This is 2020, in the middle of a so-called pandemic. Hardships have been experienced by many people but this was a hardship that went on supposedly in the murky past. We should be well able to deal with it and to do so sensitively and appropriately now.

I understand why the Minister says he is afraid that the records might be lost if we do not pass this legislation. However, any legislation that is rushed is bad legislation. We all know that and goodness knows we have rushed enough of it here in the past six or seven months and will be rushing more of it tomorrow and on Friday. That legislation is draconian and some of it will actually create a tyranny but the Government has a majority and that is its wont. It is an awful situation for the people of our country to be in. However, we have had experience of this matter. There have been investigations and reports upon reports. I listened with great interest to Deputy Canney and others and look forward to hearing from Deputy Connolly. They are closer to the situation because of where they live, as is Deputy Denis Naughten in County Roscommon. They have a greater understanding of what went on in Tuam.

This is a sad situation and a sad way to go about dealing with it. The Minister is saying that the purpose of this legislation is to project the records but we believe that by passing it, he is putting the records way beyond arm's length, 30 bliain anuas, for 30 more years. The families, children, grandchildren or great-grandchildren of survivors and victims will not be able to get their records. These people are entitled to those records. That is the very least they should be entitled to and all of the wrongdoing must be put right. I plead with the Minister but I suppose it will fall on deaf ears.

As a previous speaker indicated, unfortunately, despite all these debates that are very sensitive in nature, or should be in any case, the Government makes up its mind on the basis of advice from the Attorney General, a Cabinet sub-committee or Departments of Health, Children and Youth Affairs or Justice. It makes up its mind and whips everyone into line. That is no way to deal with a sensitive issue like this. Where are the new politics? Where is the new Government? Where is the change? Why must things be adversarial and confrontational in a situation like this when the people out there deserve honesty and for us to put our best foot forward in dealing with their issues sensitively and respectfully and with a sense of decent haste, not the indecent haste we are seeing here. The Government is rushing this Bill through the House and it rushed it through the Seanad last week. I received many complaints about the debate in the Seanad as well. I appeal to the Minister on the basis of the fact the people are entitled to better.

As far as Tusla is concerned, given its record, I am 100% opposed to its involvement. I have little faith in Tusla. There are some good people in Tusla but I have had so many complaints about it, it is unbelievable. I could fill a book with them. What is the agency after all but a big section of the HSE that was hived off into a new body called Tusla, with no proper training, scrutinising or set up and worst than that, no proper accountability. I am dealing with some awful, harrowing cases that are ongoing. Members of the Garda will state that Tusla staff will ring on a Friday evening because they are going off for the weekend and they are getting gardaí to intervene to take families away. These are very sensitive and delicate issues and I am not going to be judgmental about them but I do not have the faith in Tusla to let them have these records. I do not have any faith in Tusla and I appeal to the Minster not to bury the records in the way he is going to. History will not be kind to him if he does.

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