Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

On 19 February 2013, the then Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, gave a State apology and the Visitors Gallery was full that night of survivors of the Magdalen laundries. It was one of the stand-out nights of my time in this House to meet those women, to see their courage and their strengthen and to hear of their journeys and how they survived them. Those people are still on that journey. I am deeply uneasy at the haste in which this legislation is being brought through given all of the horrible things that were done and the many blockages they faced on that journey. This legislation will proceed through both Houses in less than seven days.

I welcome the Minister's opening statement this evening.

I know he is genuine about trying to address the issues raised. We had a good meeting with him yesterday but there are still questions relating to several issues.

We are being told about the 30 October deadline. Deputy Bríd Smith raised the matter just now. Where is that deadline provided for? Who set it? I too have searched to find out where it is laid out in legislation. Was it imposed by the commission? Initially, we were told that the lifetime of the commission was to finish on 30 October, yet we have an amendment that will extend the lifetime of the commission to do work on access to the database.

I know people want to see the commission's report and the steps that will be taken. They want to see their stories told. However, for the sake of a couple of weeks, the various competing claims around this legislation need to be analysed and fully gone through properly on Committee Stage, not in the convention centre with all its space. In a committee room we get a chance to go through legislation line by line and hear the views of different people. In any event, I recognise the genuineness of the Minister in trying to deal with the issues.

We speak of sealing records for 30 years. The Minister must clarify what exactly he means by sealing and what exactly will be sealed. He referred to information being shared with multiple Departments and organisations. In many ways, that is part of the problem. It is the kernel of the problem. Information was being shared and split and this was used as a block to getting information. People had to go to A, B, C, D and E to get personal information, which added to the time involved and the distress and agony.

I understand the balance that has to be reached. I understand the major complications relating to personal information and permission around personal information. The archive and database contain institutional information, including information on methods and financing relating to the various institutions. If we are proposing to lock away all of that, we will lock away the opportunity to hold these institutions, methods and financing to account. It is wrong to lose that opportunity. It cannot be allowed. None of us wants to do that. Who will account for the institutional stories within the archive if it is to be locked away? I know the Minister will seek to clarify that this evening.

The Minister has given assurances. The briefing we had with him yesterday was useful and I thank his staff. From his speech today, it is clear he is genuine in his assurances. However, these women have been given a lifetime of assurances along many steps of the way. They were told things would be done differently. There was acknowledgement of the pain. They are not listening any more because they have been let down so often. I know this Minister will not do that. I know he will try not to, but the system seems, either deliberately or by accident, to conspire to consistently let them down. We are rushing through this legislation. I know it is not meant personally but inadvertently it tramples on the sensitivity of what we are discussing. It is simply another episode in a catalogue of mistreatment and abuse that the Oireachtas will not give enough scrutiny to every legislative measure around this issue. We need to consider where these people have come from.

The issues raised by the commission around Tusla, the way the agency does its work and engages with survivors and people looking for information need to be dealt with. These people need to be assured that if Tusla is managing and handling this information, it will do so showing the utmost respect and dignity for those whose information they are handling. The commission has flagged this as an issue that needs to be addressed.

This is extraordinarily complex. It is unfortunate that people are trying to score party political points out of it. That is not helpful. Every Deputy and Senator wishes to get this right. If we had more time, we could make a better job of getting it right. Given the Minister's commitment this evening and his sincerity, I am prepared to support him but he cannot become the latest Minister and institution to let these women, these heroes, down. He cannot do that to them or to the Oireachtas.

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