Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats) | Oireachtas source

The Minister started by saying that our most fundamental duty today is to acknowledge the profound failures and mistreatment of Irish women and their children who were cruelly deprived of choice and agency, and, in many cases, coerced into unnecessary institutional settings. I absolutely agree. We and the Government need to acknowledge that. We need to acknowledge the bravery and dignity of those women and their children. We also need to make sure we do not repeat those mistakes, that we do not use today, tomorrow and this legislation to silence those women and children again and sweep their stories and history under the carpet. We need to listen to their voices and make sure that as we make our decisions today, we hear those voices when we are doing so. It is important that we do not disenfranchise those people again and use this legislation to do that.

I understand the rationale for this legislation. The Minister does not want the records to be destroyed and because of that, there has been a bit of a rush with the legislation. What he is essentially saying by doing that, and what the Taoiseach was saying yesterday, is that we will get this legislation through and come back later to the other issue. The Minister is asking those women to trust him. They are being asked to put their trust in the Government and in a State and institutions that have repeatedly failed them and let them down. I really think it is a bridge too far, to be honest. The State needs to build up trust and the onus is on it to do that. It is not, and should never be, on the survivors - the women and children. It should not be their responsibility to build that trust with us. The Government needs to build that trust with them.

When we are talking about building trust, it is about listening to voices. I have a major concern about this legislation in that there was no consultation in respect of it. I will talk about consultation with Deputies and about the democratic process later, but there has been no consultation with the survivors. The collaborative forum, established by the then Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Katherine Zappone, was to be the new approach in the State's response under the theme "Nothing about us without us". It was to involve the victims in an open and consistent engagement on these matters. That forum was not consulted in the drafting of this legislation, nor were other groups.

This is a complex and emotive issue.

There are so many voices, but those voices need to be heard. This Bill has not done that. If that consultation had happened, we would not be in this position today where so many Deputies will find it impossible to vote in favour of the Bill as it currently stands.

The Minister mentioned in his speech and in the media that the Bill does not seal the mother and baby homes archive for 30 years. With all due respect, that is a cop-out. This legislation triggers the 2004 Act. The Bill could be used for good and to not allow that information to be sealed.

Deputies from across the House have tabled amendments, and many of them are very feasible and valuable. It is really important that the Minister scrutinise them. This Bill could be used to amend the 2004 Act and re-emphasise the legal superiority of the Act giving effect to the GDPR. In doing so, that would ensure that the sealing of documentation does not happen. They are relatively simple amendments that have been put forward to enable and ensure that the sealing of this documentation does not happen and women's histories are not sealed and hidden again for a long time.

I listened to the debate in the Seanad and the debate today and there were so many emotive and upsetting stories. As a mother, I do not understand how someone would get through something like that. Those women did. We cannot forget those stories. The database is spoken of as being a valuable resource. We use very technical terminology to describe all of this. We cannot lose sight of what it will mean for those women and families. We need to acknowledge that.

I am a relatively new Deputy. I have received over 3,500 emails to my office about the Bill. They did not come only from those directly involved in the issue. People from all over the country heard the story and wanted to express how frustrated and worried they were for the survivors and how they felt it was wrong to seal the documentation.

The Government has misread the mood of the nation on this. Perhaps something like this would have gone through ten years ago and we would not have had such an outcry. I do not think the Irish public will allow this to happen. They will not want to see the women further impacted and silenced. It is important that the Minister looks at this with an open heart.

Very good amendments have been put forward by many Deputies across the Chamber. I ask that the Minister consider how he can improve the Bill to make sure the database is not sealed. I understand that in the amendments that have been put forward the dissolution of the commission will be what triggers the transfer or sealing of the information, and that dissolution will not happen until February. Can the Minister confirm that? Does that provide some breathing space to put forward something else in a month or two to make sure the information is not sealed? It is very important that we do not allow this documentation to be sealed, that we listen to the voices of the women and do what is right in this regard.

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