Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the publication by the Government of the roadmap for living with Covid-19. It is a valuable contribution to the debate. It is also a valuable contribution to the public in terms of how to deal with this crisis. I also welcome what the Minister, Deputy Donnelly, said earlier, that in this chapter of Covid-19 the State is seeking to open up the country while, at the same time, trying to suppress the virus. It is important that Members of the House discuss this issue and how the country should propose to deal with it.

Many issues must be taken into account when deciding, as a society, how to respond to the pandemic. Obviously, public health must predominate, but other factors must be taken into account as well, such as mental health, particularly of younger people, and the economic impact of the restrictions on society. I believe we probably have three options, and the Government has done well in identifying the roadmap it is setting out in the Covid-19 plan. I do not have great wisdom on this matter. No Member of the House is absolutely sure what the correct answer is. Although this is not an unprecedented event, it is an extraordinary one. Some individuals advocate that we should take the elimination route. I have great respect for the individuals who advocate that, but I am concerned about how attainable it is. When one sees how this virus is spreading around the world and sees its spread in Ireland in light of the restrictions we have been imposing for six months, my opinion, and I could be wrong, is that we will not be able to eliminate the virus from this country in the short term.

A second option is to reduce human activity to a considerable degree in the hope that the reduction will result in a reduction in the case load of the virus and consequent deaths. We are seeking to do that in a measured way under the Government, but we must also recognise there are consequences to that. Deputy McAuliffe mentioned the impact it is having on sport. For the life of me I cannot understand why we cannot let children play matches. One of the great public health measures for children is to enable them to get involved in sport. What we learn from this pandemic and our reaction to it is that our response in any area is not risk-free. There is no risk-free response we can take to this virus. I am concerned about reducing human activity and if we are going from one level up to another and down again. It is going to have a consequential impact on mental health and other public health issues. There are other public health issues facing the country, be it mental health, cancer or heart disease. All are very serious, and that is not in any way denigrating the seriousness of Covid-19 as a disease and pandemic.

A third option is what the Government has set out, which is trying to live with Covid-19 as best we can while suppressing it. That is the approach we have adopted. We must ensure that it is a measured approach. Obviously, it will have consequences for people if it is the case that we are moving up levels all the time. As time goes on, we will be able to see what the impact is of moving up a level and whether it will simply reduce the numbers in the short term and when we go from the higher level to a lower level the numbers return again. We are all learning as this develops and we need to keep a close eye on it.

We should not try to fool ourselves into believing that we can deal with this pandemic as though it is some other political issue such as housing, homelessness or unemployment.

The language we use in respect of it is that we are going to fight this. I hear people say we are going to crush it into the ground. I do not think we are ever going to be able to do that. We need to recognise that around the world they have tried to control this virus through coercion, regulation and law. Regrettably, that approach has not succeeded yet. That does not mean it will not succeed and I am not advocating that we go down the route of complete libertarianism where there is no regulation. There has to be strict regulation in respect of it. However, we need to recognise that where coercion and regulation have been used around the world, to date they have not succeeded. I know people who disagree and refer to China, Taiwan and New Zealand. Certainly they are at present in a different, much better position than Ireland although I am sceptical as to what is the actual position in China. In other countries around the world, particularly in Europe, we can see that notwithstanding the enormous efforts that have been made by societies and countries to try to ensure that we get on top of this pandemic, as the restrictions have been lifted the numbers have inevitably risen. The reason that has happened is that we are social animals. We have to cut down on our sociability but we made a decision centuries ago that we were going to live proximate to other humans. That is what cities and large towns are about. It is what schools and collective community activity are about. It is very difficult to tell people to pull away from that proximity to other humans. It is a huge ask. We have done extremely well in this country to date and we should recognise that. It is difficult.

Deputy McAuliffe spoke about sports and others have spoken about young people. I have spoken probably too much about young people. There are two groups that have suffered very much from this. One is young people and the other is the elderly, who have been put in a position in their lives where they are very fearful about going out and meeting younger persons and their relatives. I suppose they have to be very careful. NPHET was before the Covid-19 committee yesterday and gave us some very valuable information. The median age of the 1,803 people who have died to date is in the late 80s. Obviously elderly people need to be particularly careful. I know it is a dangerous disease that affects everyone but people who are elderly need to be particularly careful, especially if they have underlying conditions. The roadmap is a good map. We need to give it time. We need to listen to the public health advice we are being given. However, we also need to recognise that we cannot close our minds to the societal and economic impacts, the other public health impacts and the mental health impacts of the restrictions. We can see the consequences of the pandemic by looking at the tragic figures representing those who have died in Ireland and around the world. What we cannot see are the repercussions of the restrictions around the world and here. They will be measured in mental health and other public health issues, the impact on children and elderly people and in moving from a society we have built up over many centuries.

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