Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am disappointed with the Minister of State's performance here this evening. The one thing that I will say to both the Minister and the Minister of State is that they should remember 30 September because the people of Ireland are watching and they listened carefully to what the Minister of State said earlier on. There are many millers watching this tonight and many contractors who are desperately hoping that they will have work next month and the month after. In the coming days, timber will be coming in from Scotland. It is a disgrace to think that here we are at a stage where we are nearly at a standstill. The industry is relying on the Minister and the Minister of State, as senior politicians, and what the Minister and the Minister of State are saying to us as legislators is they will not accept what we are seeking, which is common sense.

Having a timeline and having a timeframe is the same, as I stated earlier on, as what the local authorities have. It is merely sensible work. It is a way of dealing with a person's right of application. One should remember that when a person applies to the State to plant forestry, he or she obviously has an expected right to pen that forestry, to clear-fell it when its time comes and to make a road through it to make access roads to withdraw the timber of the forestry. Those are reasonable expectations that any farmer or forester would have. If one goes back over history's pages, one will find it was a reasonable expectation and common sense.

Here the Minister of State is tonight denying us the right to have our amendments be accepted. I told the Minister of State earlier on we were not fighting with her. We wanted to work with her but now when I see what the Minister of State is doing, if she wants a fight we will give her as good a fight as anybody will give her.

What the two Ministers are doing here is disgraceful because they are letting the industry think that they are doing something to help it but they are actually not. They are doing nothing to help the industry by not allowing us have our amendments be accepted. Why will they not accept our amendments? Is it because they did not put in these provisions in the first instance? Is it that their heads have already become too swelled in the short couple of weeks that they are there? They should remember that any politician, whether a Minister, a Deputy, a county councillor or whatever, is only there because the people want him or her to be there. The day the people do not want a Minister to be there, he or she will be gone, out of here and history.

The Minister of State is not listening to the users of the service. The Minister of State is not listening to the poor small farmer who might be relying on having his forestry thinned or clear-felled in order that he or she can have a few euro, which he or she is perfectly entitled to have. It was such farmers' right and expectation. The State backed them at the time when they planted the forestry and now the Minister of State is denying them this little bit of assistance. It is here in black and white. The amendments are there. They are perfectly sensible.

Everybody knows I do not like saying anything against anybody but when I heard what Deputy Boyd Barrett said earlier on, to be honest I would hate to give him a chainsaw because his two legs would stand grave danger if he had a chainsaw in his hands, because he knows flip all about timber. He knows nothing about the forestry sector to come out with what he came out with earlier on. The Deputy should stick with what he is knowledgeable about. I say, "My goodness" to any person who would not support what we are trying to do tonight.

There is nothing wrong with what we are looking for. All we are looking for is fair play. When a person hears these big figures, he or she might think that they are millionaires. When one hears that people who might be small contractors whose families are steeped in the tradition of harvesting timber are buying a machine that cost half a million euro, one might think they are very rich to be able to buy that type of a machine. It is a balancing act. All that happens is the person goes to a finance company and gets the finance because he or she has the experience, the operators and a proven track record of going into a forest and being able to thin it and operate the machinery. The forwarders and the harvesters are complex machines to operate and it is a trade in itself to drive them. Those people use their brains to borrow the money through leases or loans for that equipment. They struggle to pay back every month. The repayments are enormous. All they hope to have is enough money at the end of the month to pay what they owe for the lease, the hire purchase or loan, enough money to pay their diesel bill, their transportation cost when they have to move it from A to B, and enough money to pay the driver and maybe be able to cover breakdowns. All they are doing is making a living. There is nothing fancy about it. They might be sitting up on a machine that cost half a million euro or a lorry that cost €100,000 or €200,000 but at the end of the day, it is only a struggling act all the time to keep the show rolling. The Minister and Minister of State are doing nothing to help them by bringing this Bill before the House and not accepting the amendments.

The only reason we were supporting this all along is we surely thought that the Minister and the Minister of State would have the common sense and the down-to-earth understanding that these fellows know what they are talking about and they know what they are doing. We are supporting the millers, the hauliers, the contractors and the forest owners. Here the Minister and the Minister of State are, turning their noses up in the sky and looking down at the lot of us and saying, "No."

I am asking the Minister of State and the Minister a question here tonight, and I will not let them get away with this. Why will they not accept our amendments? Why will they not come down out of their high ivory towers to our level and explain properly what is wrong with what we are suggesting? What is wrong with it and why will they not accept it? They will alienate themselves from many people. They will be classified as foolish, mean and horrible for what they are doing because they are hurting so many people tonight. It is very upsetting.

There are people out there who are relying on us and the Minister and the Minister of State to do the right thing. We cannot do it because we are not the Ministers in government. We are not the people who can have a say. Therefore, I want the Minister and the Minister of State to explain why they will not accept what we are trying to do. The Minister of State heard Members, such as Deputy Fitzmaurice, earlier on. Will the Minister of State please tell us what is wrong with what we are saying or does she just want to support the cranks, the crackpots and the useless people who want to do nothing only object to everything?

Does the Minister of State want our trees? The Minister of State knows what happens a forest. I hope she does anyway.

Does she know what happens to a forest when it is not thinned or properly taken care of? It dies standing because it does not flourish or grow. It is well known that if 40% of the weight of a forest is removed, within five years there is over 40% regrowth in the trees left standing and it is good quality box wood, the pulpwood has been removed and there is only the good quality timber, which we so desperately need. The Minister of State is failing to see this. For God's sake, she should grow up, she is a Minister of State in the Government and she should understand the problem and what we are trying to do here. Why will she not accept the amendments? It is wrong, and what the Government is doing is inherently wrong. It will be remembered for tonight, 30 September. The Ministers should remember it because it will be remembered as a disaster and a failure. When we bring in timber from Russia, the Green Party and the whole bloody lot of them can go and explain where the common sense was in this. Why, in a country which can perhaps grow timber better than anywhere else in the world, do we have to import timber from Russia? Where is the common sense? Where is our carbon footprint? Where does that make sense? How will the users of timber, the people who want to build homes or farmers who wish to use if for construction get it? It will be from the Russians. My goodness. Is the Government proud of itself? The Ministers need to grow up and cop on a small bit and do what they are supposed to do, and do their jobs properly. They are upsetting a lot of people tonight, and I am upset over it.

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