Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State. It is a pity he did not get to hear all the contributions. I wish the Tánaiste well. The Minister of State said this is about timing. It really is because we are in the middle of a pandemic. If we in the Labour Party had not brought this proposal forward, the House would not be talking about it. The Minister of State certainly would not be talking about it. Our party has always fought for workers' rights. We will continue to do so and it will be to the fore of everything we do. We have had many successes and have changed workers' rights in this country. My party has done so more than any other party and we aspire to do so again. In all that time, however, the issue of sick pay has never been dealt with, and this pandemic has changed that. It needs to be dealt with. The Government often puts forward commentary to the effect that the Opposition never brings forward anything, is playing politics or is doing this, that or the other. This is positive legislation. It is a proposal that we feel will help in the global pandemic we are in and will make workers' lives better.

I thank all those who said they will support the Bill. I regret some of the political commentary from a few Independents who have no intention of ever serving in government or taking responsibility for anything, although we are used to that, and from some other Independents of the rural variety who effectively said they do not believe workers should have statutory sick pay. Imagine not believing workers should have statutory sick pay or believing that a parent with a child in a school with a case of Covid should not get time off to look after that child. Imagine going back to one's constituents and saying that is what one believes. That is exactly what a number of rural Independent Deputies said today, and I will remind them of that forever. I acknowledge the support of Sinn Féin. Again, I regret its commentary, given the fact that sick pay is £89.35 in the North. Whatever we say about what we are doing down here in the Republic, sick pay is €350 here, so there is a huge differential. It is therefore hypocrisy to say one thing here and to have another thing in a different jurisdiction.

We have made many changes. My colleague, Deputy Nash, brought in many changes in labour legislation during his time as Minister of State, including the establishment of the Low Pay Commission, which we will speak about again. Statutory sick pay is an issue that will have to be dealt with. It took a global pandemic to expose a huge hole in workers' rights.

I was taken by Deputy Harkin's contribution. She did an analysis of a range of jurisdictions across Europe which are hardly socialist bastions, for want of a better phrase. This included 22 countries which have statutory sick pay and pay proper wages to workers when they are sick. Some of these countries are getting on better than us in the pandemic. That has not been correlated here so I ask Deputies to listen to that.

Sick pay is currently at the discretion of the employer and I acknowledge there are very good employers out there. A large number of employers pay sick pay, including the public service and other very good employers. However, some employers are not good. Some of the employers represented and spoken about in this House today do not want to pay sick pay. They want that power over their employees and they do not want to pay sick pay. That is not acceptable in 2020 during a pandemic.

We acknowledge that small and medium enterprises will need financial support in tandem with this Bill, particularly during the pandemic. The reason we are introducing this legislation before the budget is to align it with the budget in order that these enterprises can get such support. It is our intention to make sure employers who can afford to pay sick pay but are refusing to do so pay it, and that small and medium enterprises are supported by the Government to ensure they can meet the requirements which will be set out during the process by which we bring this through the Houses of the Oireachtas.

The suggestion of a six-month delay is complete and utter rubbish. When there is an outbreak in a place of low-paid employment and a county goes into lockdown as a result, I will point out to the Minister of State that we had an opportunity and he should tell that to people in the county that is in lockdown because a low-pay employer did not pay sick pay. I know all about low-paid employment, such as the meat industry. There is a factory in Cahir in my county of Tipperary where workers have to be in full employment for two years to receive sick pay. I know all about meat factories because I worked in them to be able to go to college. They are tough places to work. If employers do not respect workers and provide adequate sick pay, what will the workers do? They will take paracetemol, Calpol or whatever they can. Temperature checks are a complete waste of time. Workers are left in an unenviable position facing the stark choice between going to work or not getting paid. If they go to work, they will spread the disease.

I have a real issue with where we are going with this pandemic and the lack of sick pay because there will be outbreaks and this is the trajectory. We will be faced with what NPHET recommends and what the Government takes on board. We will not have used our full armoury or all our tools and some people will go to work and spread symptoms because of the Government's decision not to allow this Bill to go through. This Bill needs analysis on Committee Stage and outside input but all of that can be done. Rushed legislation is not good legislation, I heard today, but there has been a huge amount of rushed legislation over the past six months. This is necessary legislation. Tusla have reported 63 incidents in early years services already. What about all of those workers and workers in all low-paid environments?

The the mantra from Government that we must follow public health advice is one I support but it is hypocritical. The chief executive and chief clinical officer of the HSE have both said this measure is necessary. On 27 August, the acting Chief Medical Officer made a clear recommendation and the journalist asked him if that recommendation had been made to Government a few weeks previously by NPHET, to which the acting Chief Medical Officer replied that it had been. Some time in August, the acting Chief Medical Officer recommended that the issue of sick pay be dealt with. The Government has not dealt with it, which means the Government is not following public health advice. When the Government tells the public to follow public health advice, is it not hypocrisy that one of the issues that NPHET and the HSE have stated the Government needs to deal with has not been dealt with? When the Government asks young and old people and everyone else to follow health advice, can people not throw back at the Government the argument that it is not following health advice? The Government is allowing situations where people will go into work because they will not get paid otherwise. Is that not hypocrisy?

I ask the Minister of State to go back to the Government and deal with this issue. It must also deal with the provision in the Bill on parental leave which would allow guardians, mothers and fathers to look after their children, just for the period of Covid if there is an outbreak in a school. This is a comprehensive, positive and necessary Bill. It ticks the box in meeting the Government's challenge to the Opposition in this Chamber to come up with solutions and be proactive, positive and non-political. This is not about politics; it is necessary. I urge the Minister of State not to kick this legislation down the road for six months. If he does so, he and every other Deputy who votes against it are saying that parents cannot look after their children if there is an outbreak in schools and that people who work in low-paid employment which does not have sick pay are not entitled to it. What they are all saying is that when they want to they can follow public health advice and when it does not suit their political needs, they do not have to. That is bloody well hypocrisy.

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