Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome this legislation. It is behind time. I acknowledge there was an election and a long delay in forming a Government. We are eight months behind time and, once again, we are being fined by the EU authorities. If we are in the EU, we have to play our part but we are being fined regularly by its authorities over many issues. On this matter of criminal justice, in respect of which every citizen of the State needs protection, it ill-behoves us to foot-drag and not play our part. We are very good Europeans in many ways. When it comes to signing statutory instruments for the fishermen, we crucify them. The Taoiseach could not even wait for the appointment of a Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, albeit the third in a month, to sign the statutory instruments. He rushed to sign them and I would say he had not even read them. This is what happens. The severe penalties imposed on the fishermen because of the statutory instruments are scandalous. One can go to court, defend one's good name and have penalty points annulled but they stay on one's licence. Did you ever hear the beat of it in your life? A person may be cleared of the offence for which he was charged and for which he received penalty points but he cannot remove the penalty points from his licence. We were so quick to allow this but we are so slow to deal with important legislation such as that before the House.

The Minister of State is new and I wish him well. I have no issue with him whatsoever, and I had no issue with his father before him. I respect the Minister of State. He is a legal brain and is qualified, much more than I am, but the situation is scandalous. Night after night and day after day, we hear about atrocities in Dublin and Drogheda. They are spreading down to Mullingar and we fear they will spread to Clonmel because of the activities of drug gangs.

We hear the horrible term "mule". When I was growing up, a mule was a cross between a jennet and an ass. "Mule" is a horrible term. We had drug mules and now we have money mules. It is disgusting. Young teenagers, perhaps barely in secondary school and perhaps with learning difficulties or on the spectrum, are being used in a horrible, disgusting fashion. As soon as they reach the legal age to open a bank account, they do so. We saw a survey that indicated 98% of money mules were youths with bank accounts. They have a serious criminal record for the rest of their lives. They probably do not get away with being assigned a juvenile liaison officer or anyone like that. They receive a horrible criminal record. They get a fairly good reward for being the mule who carries the funding into the bank account and transfers it out again. They like this; it is manna, a quick buck. They get into the way of life and it becomes so hard to change it. They get in deeper and deeper and it becomes so difficult to get out of it. It is so difficult for people in the community, including parents, Garda liaison officers and therapists, to talk them out of their activity because it is lucrative and there is a big buzz with high octane levels. They get sucked in and carry on with their activity.

I support this legislation but, like Deputy Danny Healy-Rae, I have an issue over persons who are regarded as exposed, such as politicians. I, like all Deputies, am one of those - I certainly accept that - but my wife and each of my eight children, including my 14-year-old daughter, and my son in law, who is not related to me as such although we are on very good terms, thank God, and he is a great man to have around the house to help us with issues, are not. They all get registered letters from my bank stating they are exposed persons. It has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous.

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My child has no way of earning money. She has passed the leaving certificate now and is going on to college. The expense will be on us to keep her there. God bless her, she has achieved what she wanted to and got her place. It was a very anxious year last year. The present year with the exams was anxious and now the students do not know what they will have. Will they have lectures or will they have study? It is unfair on them.

However, she is an exposed person and that is ridiculous. When I got onto my bank I got no hop. When I got onto my legal adviser I was told to comply. I have no notion of complying for my children, especially ones who are not involved in my business or my political scene or anything else. Some of them are married and imithe and are setting up their own clann and family. We must be mindful of that.

I am talking to the drafters of this legislation, who I am often critical of, but it is a step too far. It is ridiculous. Why should they inquire about my children? As Deputy Healy-Rae said, the banks are under this legislation now and they notice more than anybody if there are big money movements involving an account holder, be it me or anybody else. I am all up for that because that is the way it should be.

I have eight children. My wife and I are blessed with them, thank God. That they be all exposed persons and classified to get registered letters is kind of intimidating. The system has gone mad. It should not be happening. I am sorry I do not have the amendment down on this but the Minister needs to look at it and say, "Come on a minute here". Why would a bank put a family under stress with these letters? We did not know what was happening. They were registered letters. Any time there is a serious enough event one would sign for them and whatever but that needs to be changed in the legislation.

We need the legislation to tackle who it should, that is, the heinous, dastardly people who are involved in drugs and financial crime, in drug and people trafficking, in child labour, you name it. Whatever comes up, they do not mind. They see lots of money and quick ways of getting it. We are lagging behind with this legislation. However, under the existing legislation I got all those letters one day from the fear an phoist isteach an doras. We got the letters so that is ridiculous. I do not want to say any more about it but I want to see that changed because it is not right as far as I am concerned. I am a political person and, of course, my wife is, as are some people who are involved with me. Other family members, however, should not be. It is not right.

We were fined €2 million recently. I will be putting in a Dáil question because I would love to know how often and by how many millions we are being fined by our European friends. We used to get much support from them but now we are on the paying end of it. I saw that after the most recent crunch talks we were going to be net contributors. We are the fifth highest contributor in the whole EU. That is bad enough without paying all these fines as well.

As I said, it is not right to have these drug barons do what they like. As regards ordinary, small drug criminals and many of these mules that I am talking about, the person may be male or female. I hate calling them that term but that is what they are called. I call whoever got sucked into that a vulnerable person. He or she may then get involved in moving drugs. In my own county, in Clonmel and other towns, children as young as seven are distributing drugs for family gangs that are out of control and controlling the drug trade in the town. I spoke about it here before.

I will support the gardaí 100%. I will support superintendent Willie Leahy and his team, sergeant Kieran O'Regan, garda Clare Murphy and many others on the community side of it. They have really come to the fore through Covid-19. If the Minister saw the Dickensian station they are expected to work in he would not believe it. I will not compare them to animals but one would not expect to put anybody in it in this day and age. It is not a suitable premises for any workplace, let alone members of An Garda Síochána who are the front line, and it is a thin line between anarchy and peace and the public. They need the public's support at all times.

We need robust legislation and I salute the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, and support the excellent work it has done. It gives me a sense of pride when I see a bus with CAB and, perhaps, the customs and, possibly, the Garda dog and drugs teams and they unearth huge amounts of drugs. It was referred to earlier. One was referred to in Drogheda. They are literally seizing and, more importantly, freezing bank accounts and finding wagons of cash in that number of houses. Often, these are domestic houses and then there are warehouses in which we see the opulence; cars and watches and so forth. This must be stamped out. We are behind the curve in stamping it out but I support the CAB in what it does. That needs to be done and we must support it and take solace in that. The Garda must take solace in that as well as regards getting these thugs off the streets.

These young and vulnerable people, the so-called mules, get involved as well. Their families do their best but they are sucked into this. Then we see they are living in housing estates; they are on the street and they are giving a terribly bad name to the whole community and people know about it. They are feared by some and revered by other young people because of their money and what they can do. It is a difficult area to deal with.

However, the housing authorities and housing legislation must be strengthened to come up with ways of dealing with this. As was said earlier by an Teachta Crowe, I believe, Garda vetting is there for everything. I have people now who are involved in the community and might be involved in five different organisations. They must get separate Garda vetting for all of them. It is madness. When we have Garda vetting for a house, some people are slipping through the cracks. There is also a relocation policy in a city not too far from me and people ended up in our towns in County Tipperary. We were not told about them. Where was the Garda vetting? Worse than that, if a person gets a clear Garda vetting, is housed in a family home and then gets involved in the drug business or all this dirty, murky business, there should be a review of the Garda vetting. They are not in as a good tenant. The council and social workers are slow to act and it is not easy.

I see it in Clonmel in a housing estate. I do not see it, I am sorry. However, people are on to me on a regular basis. There is a constant flow of people in and out over the wall. If the residents open their mouths they get abused and get all kinds of missiles thrown into their garden. That is from a particular grouping of people who we all talk about here. We give them ethnic status as well and they cannot be touched. It is shocking. We need this regulation to be more robust and even-handed to take those vagabonds, gangsters and fraudsters off our streets because it is a thin line where they will take control.

It is that lacuna we have now with the children out of school and much time on their hands. We saw that party, and I will not be criticising na daoine óga. Mol an óige agus tiocfaidh sí. I have spent time dealing with issues in Clonmel and antisocial behaviour. It is not really antisocial behaviour; it is gangs of people with nothing to do because all the sports were stood down. All their activities, whether it be arts work, music, scoil rince nó rudaí mar sin, they were all closed up so people had nothing else to do. There is an old saying, and the Leas-Cheann Comhairle will probably agree with me. The devil finds work for idle hands, and that is what happened. They did not have the work or recreation or those outlets.

I appeal to parents of teenagers, and I am one myself, to know and care and wonder where their young people are because we do not want them turning into this terrible term of money mules. It is shocking and it is a simple transaction. The money goes into one's account and it has gone out an hour later. However, it is a diversion and they are easily traced, which is a good thing. As I said, Deputy Murphy referred to a survey where 98% of the people involved here where young people between 17 or 18 and 24. It is a vital time because there are a lot of pressures on those people.

I support the legislation, certainly, but I am concerned and I appeal to the Minister to examine the situation I outlined. Deputy Healy-Rae did likewise because common sense could be applied. It is a scarce commodity in this modern world. As I said, however, we need common sense. We also need to ensure that legislation is prepared and put through the House in time. In this case, we must and should have it in time. We are behind the curve all the time in catching up with these criminals with this cryptocurrency. I have not even referred to it but we saw it all this week throughout the world with big financial institutions. Some €40 billion went through them here in Ireland. We pride ourselves on the financial headquarters and companies we have here. However, we are open and ripe for picking. Our children, however, na daoine óga, are ripe for picking and it is the wrong kind of picking. It must be stamped out, so this legislation must go through swiftly. I ask the Minister to try and address the questions I have put to him.

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