Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Deputies Kelly and McDonald asked about the Low Pay Commission. Sinn Féin and Deputy McDonald could take a leaf out of Deputy Kelly's book. Let us argue these issues in as non-political and non-partisan a way as we can. We are all in favour of looking after and doing the best we can for low-paid workers. The problem I see in the exchanges this morning is one party wants to party-politicise the issues. That party now blames Fine Gael and the Labour Party for what it is saying is a commission that was not wired properly. The commission made five recommendations that were accepted by successive Governments. It is a serious issue that a statutory body that was set up by the Oireachtas and had input from all parties is now in a breakdown situation. We have to move carefully before we just abandon it.

This matter can be dealt with as part of the work of the social dialogue unit in my Department. I established that unit, by the way, because I believe strongly in working with trade unions, employers and other interests to develop a consensual approach to society. Fianna Fáil brought in social partnership in the late 1980s at a time of great economic crisis. Social partnership did a lot for this country in its first ten years or so. It did a lot for workers and it did a lot to advance social entitlements and rights. I make no apology for saying I am a strong advocate for engagement in social dialogue with trade unions, employers and broader interests in society to advance a better quality of life and better rights and entitlements for workers. That is why I, as Taoiseach, set up a new unit within my Department to intensify our effort on that front.

There is a commitment in the programme for Government to move towards a living wage. Deputy Kelly is correct in suggesting that we must consider what is the mechanism or forum by which we arrive at that. I believe we should make an effort to restore equilibrium on the Low Pay Commission. The Deputy is also correct that the Government has not made a decision as to whether it will accept the particular recommendation to which he referred. That will be done closer to budget time. We are very conscious of the issues. One should, in fairness, ascertain the reasons that this recommendation has come forward. I am conscious that, as a Government, we are supporting a lot of employers. The vast majority of those availing of the wage subsidy are micro-employers through to small and medium-sized employers, as Deputy McDonald noted. That is who is availing of the wage subsidy scheme. More than 350,000 workers are being supported under the scheme and will be supported through to April. It seems to me, with the prevalence of Covid-19, that this support could be needed beyond then in terms of financial and economic requirements and impact.

I also take Deputy Kelly's broader point. I have gone through some of the work of Thomas Picketty, for example, which outlines how, globally and throughout Europe, those on higher incomes have got proportionately more over the decades compared with those on lower incomes. There is an obligation on the State to work towards bridging that gap and giving people a decent wage with decent entitlements such as sick pay. The Government is working on that and we want to work constructively with the legislation Deputy Kelly has brought forward. That was our intention at Cabinet yesterday - not to dismiss it but to recognise the need for a serious engagement with unions, employers and all concerned to see how we can devise a more structured sick pay regime within our overall pay and entitlement framework in this country.

On the sectoral issues, the Government appealed the High Court decision in regard to the sectoral pay awards. We are keen to protect the rights that have been enshrined in the various orders.

In regard to the Debenhams situation, I have met a number of workers on a number of occasions. I do not approve of strike breaking or any approach like that. It is not going to resolve these issues. The union involved has been seeking to resolve the matter. What I do not want to do either is walk people up a hill by pretending we can do everything. The workers now know that is not the case. Whatever we say and do has to be grounded in reality.

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