Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent) | Oireachtas source

Yes, I will move on. The purpose of this Bill, as almost everybody accepts, is to introduce certain draconian provisions. The Minister said it would be impracticable to have to bring in new legislation repeatedly in the circumstances of a global pandemic. However, her party leader, the Tánaiste and Minister for Business, Enterprise and Innovation, has pointed out that Ireland is completely out of kilter with every other European state. My question is how the pandemic is different in Ireland from how it is in every other country. In fact, it is only different insofar as we have been more draconian with our restrictions and, frankly, those draconian restrictions have failed. At the end of it all, our detection figures are the same as the figures in Sweden. I am not saying that Sweden is the perfect model but I am pointing out that there were no closures of bars there and no lockdown. In fact, at this point in time, there are no closures of bars in any other country in Europe.

We have really draconian measures in place in this country and they have manifestly failed. If one is to claim that they have not failed, then the only other explanation is that the figures being provided by NPHET on a daily basis are incorrect. I do not for a moment believe that is the case. I believe NPHET's figures are correct and I believe those figures are higher than those in other countries because the strategy we have pursued has failed and is failing. I do not say that with any joy. It is quite sad given the sacrifices people made in good faith, including cancelling foreign holidays after they were told that to go on such a holiday would be the great evil and must be avoided. Yet, in countries where that type of restriction was not applied, they are not seeing the same detection figures we are seeing here. These really draconian restrictions serve no apparent purpose because our transmission figures are now higher than they are in other countries. At the same time, we have failed to deal with the clusters of infections that are the real cause for concern. I understand there was a discussion in NPHET about direct provision centres but the advice that came out from senior figures in NPHET to others was that it would be politically sensitive to raise the issue. This means we cannot look at the direct provision centres. We will not look at meat plants because, apparently, they keep the whole show rolling. God knows what they finance but they clearly finance something or they would not have been left to do their own thing while bar owners were being hammered.

Even the bar owners themselves now seem to have bought into this policy that the beatings will continue until morale improves, which is, in effect, what this Bill is about. The policy is to introduce more and more draconian legislation and make things harder and harder for people. The Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, AGSI, has expressed reservations about this legislation. Ordinary rank-and-file gardaí throughout the State do not want it and have said it will bring An Garda Síochána into disrepute. They have a job to do and it is not exclusively to focus on bars, as the Government would have them do because somebody must be scapegoated for the failure of Government policy.

We are told that the Bill is a temporary measure but it includes a provision to have the measures it contains rolled over. Does anybody in this House believe the Bill will not be rolled over after November? Does the Minister really believe that she will not be putting down an amendment in a few weeks' time to roll it over?

I know it will be rolled over. That is the nature of giving powers to organisations. It is the nature of draconian legislation brought in with sunset clauses that are not really sunset clauses that it stays on the books forever. We had a long debate on the matter in Leinster House.

Before the House rose for the summer recess, I stated that it sets a terrible example for the Dáil to be sitting in the Convention Centre. There are 20 Deputies present - at what cost - and we are asking teachers to go back into schools. Thankfully, they are going back into schools. It is a significant credit to the Government and, in particular, to teachers, boards of management and parents that we have got the schools open again. However, this situation is not an example to set for anybody. That is why I do not think we should state that we will roll over this legislation.

The Bill is unnecessary. The only possible basis for it is if it is a promise to the people that if they can swallow this one more piece of medicine, the Government will open the pubs. This is not about pubs, it is about society. It is about rural Ireland, which is dying on its feet. Young people cannot meet anywhere. They cannot meet in bars or nightclubs or at weddings. They cannot even go to matches. Where will they meet? Of course, they meet in places where we think they should not meet. They do so because they are social animals. We are all social animals. We need to meet. We need a sense of community. A colleague of mine who is from County Kerry but lives in Dublin went down to Kerry recently. It was the first time he had been there for many months because of Covid, etc.. He could not believe the sense of isolation, desolation and desperation in the county. What is being done is destroying communities. It is destroying the sense of community and society and is doing untold damage to people's physical and mental health and their sense of well-being and optimism. It must come to an end at some point. The logical point for it to come to an end is when the powers given to the Minister for Health in the emergency legislation for which I voted - I do not regret voting for it - lapse. The powers have been slightly abused, but I expected that might happen. Unfortunately, I was not disappointed in that regard. I know the Minister for Health will table a motion to carry on these powers because that is what Departments do. They never relinquish power. I know the Minister for Justice will seek to roll over this legislation. I do not believe that we can continue to roll over draconian legislation which is having such a significant effect.

I am not a Covid denier. It is a very serious virus. It has killed people in this country and it will kill more people. Everybody needs to be careful and cautious, but at some point we, as legislators in this House, will have to trust people and say to them to be responsible and, for God's sake, look after themselves, their family members and those with whom they come in contact. However, we cannot continue to do that through coercive criminal legislation without destroying society and individuals. It cannot continue indefinitely. On that basis, I urge the Minister to put a proper sunset clause in place, a date after which these powers will not continue, especially given that any closure order made cannot be challenged.

The Minister fudged the issue of how one can challenge a decision to order a pub to close for a day. As I stated, this is about a lot more than pubs, but it is also about pubs, in accordance with the Long Title. How does one challenge a decision to order a pub to close for a day? One challenges it by way of judicial review. Is the Minister seriously telling me that the 6,000 or so publicans who are shut down and on their knees, some of whom are having their payment reduced, are going to take a judicial review, hire a solicitor, junior counsel and senior counsel and go to the High Court and pay the tens of thousands of euro necessary to challenge their closure for a day? Of course, they are not. However, that closure for a day will be used against the publican when he or seeks to renew the liquor licence. These are draconian powers that are having an effect on people and society and they must come to an end at some point.

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