Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputies for their contributions and for agreeing to waive pre-legislative scrutiny of the legislation. I accept that it is the second Bill I have brought forward in such circumstances but, as Deputies who are concerned about this have outlined, there is no committee structure currently in place and this legislation will only be in force until 9 November unless the House decides to extend it. That is a very limited timeframe and we are seeking to bring it into force quickly. We genuinely wish to thank Deputies for their support in that regard. I will try to provide the clarity which they have sought.

Before so doing, I wish to again acknowledge that the vast majority of licensed premises - and that is what this legislation is about, it is not about homes, house parties or anything else - including public houses, gastropubs, restaurants and clubs are in compliance with the Covid regulations and, as such, will never need to engage with gardaí on these provisions. I thank them for their compliance. However, there has been an increase in non-compliance. As of last weekend, 186 breaches had been identified under Operation Navigation since the beginning of July. The number of consistent breaches, where an individual has been non-compliant on two or more occasions, has also increased. The Bill only affords additional powers of enforcement to An Garda Síochána in respect of licensed premises. There was never any intention for the legislation to grant additional powers in respect of entering homes or dealing with house parties. I am not sure from where that confusion came, but that was never the case or the intention. The Bill provides that people who are in contravention of the regulations, have been engaged with by the Garda and continue to flout the regulations, to potentially face certain various penalties. In the first instance, a premises may be closed for the remainder of the day. At further stages, a premises may be closed for up to three days, seven days or 30 days. The latter two periods require a commencement notice to be issued by An Garda beforehand. Throughout all of these measures, the licensee has the opportunity to object or call into question the reason for potentially being penalised. There are many safeguards in the Bill. I think all Members acknowledged the fantastic work the Garda has done and that it has used a graduated approach throughout Covid and always looked to engage with people before it takes things further. That will absolutely be the case here.

On the public health regulations that will be connected to the Bill, I understand that because the regulations will be introduced and signed off by Minister for Health there are questions as to why the regulations are not included in the Bill. The penal provisions from those regulations are not set out in the Bill because there is a need for flexibility, as we have seen in recent weeks and months when the Minister for Health needed to change regulations, probably at shorter notice than we would like, based on an increase in Covid numbers or other potential problems. If we were to include the penal provisions in the legislation, it would mean that any time there was a change, we would have to introduce legislation. It just provides a level of flexibility. Of course, anything that is introduced by the Minister for Health must go through the Cabinet and be signed into law by him. There is that connection between my Department and his.

Deputy Howlin outlined the regulations that were approved on Friday at Cabinet, signed by the Minister for Health on Monday and published on the website of his Department on Tuesday. Many of those provisions do not relate to this legislation. The first of the penal provisions specifically pertaining to this legislation to which the Garda will have to have regard is regulation 11. It provides that a specified person - essentially, the licensee or the person in charge of a premises - shall ensure that members of the public are not permitted on a premises selling or supplying alcohol unless said alcohol is ordered at the same time as a substantial meal, during the meal or after the meal has ended. Regulation 13(1) provides that a specified person shall ensure that, first, the date and time of entry of a person who is part of a party of persons to the premises is recorded along with their name and telephone number.

It ensures, second, that the date and time of entry of a person who is not part of a party of persons to the premises is recorded along with his or her name and telephone number. A record is made of the substantial meal or meals ordered by each person who is permitted to enter the premises and that food and beverages are served and consumed only when the person or persons are seated at a table. There is also regulation 13(2), which provides that a specified person shall retain the records referred to in subsection (1) for a period of 28 days. The person shall make them available to the gardaí acting in the course of their duties under the regulations or a person appointed to the HSE - this is where the HSA comes into play - for the purposes of the programme commonly known as the Covid-19 contact management programme. Finally, regulation 13 provides that the aforementioned regulations in respect of businesses selling alcohol for consumption on the premises shall come into operation on the third day of September 2020. It is very clear. It is set out, I believe, not only for the holder of the licensed premises but for An Garda Síochána to know what it is that they are looking for when they go into these premises. They can ask somebody to comply. They will not go in and look only to close down that premises immediately.

There were a number of questions on issues related to genuine errors. Deputy Catherine Murphy stated that there can be genuine errors and I accept that. That is why there are a number of provisions to allow for the Garda to engage first and foremost.

It was never intended, as I mentioned, that this legislation would deal with house parties or deal with any issues within the home. I have made that clear.

I suppose there have been some questions around the fact that this could be a pathway to something else. The legislation is clear. It will only be in effect until 9 November. If the Houses choose - it is not only the Dáil but the Seanad also - to extend that, there will have to be consultation and they will have to approve that.

Deputy Naughten asked previously whether I could commit to doing it only on a two-month basis. I do not want to commit to any specific timeframe because we might only, if at all, need to extend it for a month or whatever the period might be, but what I can commit to is that these are temporary measures and I would only ever propose to extend them for a short and limited period of time.

There were suggestions that this legislation penalises publicans and is against our publicans. That is absolutely not the case. As I have stated on many occasions today, my parents ran a pub for ten to 12 years of my life. I spent much of my early teens and into my adulthood working in pubs, in college and beyond that. This is not legislation that I am introducing to try to penalise pubs. This is to make sure that those who are in compliance and abiding by the rules are not looking on at those who are flouting them with no consequences. This is also to make sure that for those who are flouting the rules and who are putting people's health at risk, there are provisions to allow the Garda to take further measures.

When I say that I believe this is a stepping stone for wet pubs, I am not being disingenuous. I am genuine when I say that we need to show a pathway for pubs so that they know what they need to do to be compliant. It is so that there can be clear regulations and guidelines, but also that if there are breaches and problems, An Garda Síochána knows that there are mechanisms that it can use to either close a premises or to seek to have it closed at a later date. That will give us a greater ability to ensure wet pubs can open. I want to see that happen sooner rather than later.

I know how important pubs are in communities, particularly in rural communities. There is very little for our young people to do as well. It has been a difficult summer for many people. I hate that much of what we see on social media points to young people. I acknowledge it has been difficult for everybody where one has no outlet to go. There have been no festivals or concerts and there has been nowhere for people to go. We wanted to try to open up society and get life back to normal as much as possible, but to do so in a safe way. These measures and powers for the Garda will be connected to regulations. The Minister for Health can add to the ones that I have outlined that will make it safe for our pubs to open. I believe that is something that we should be doing.

A Member asked if is there a timeline for objecting to the renewal of licence. Nothing is specified on this. It would be unusual for a garda to object outside of the particular year that is involved. These regulations are due to end on 9 November. Licences are renewed in September. Unless something happens between now and the end of the month for certain premises, one may not have anybody object to his or her licence. I certainly hope that will be the case.

In terms of a document, and potentially having to provide it retrospectively, it is not expected that a garda would have a document to hand over on the night of the immediate closure order but the order can be documented subsequently or as soon as possible, and that is what is intended in the legislation.

There were questions regarding the six-month jail sentence. A series of measures have to be undertaken by An Garda Síochána. The licence holder has to be negligent and not comply with them. The case can be brought to the District Court. There can be an appeal to the Circuit Court. Where enforcement measures have been put in place and those have been breached, a decision can be taken to enforce a penal provision that could include jail but I cannot see the likelihood of this happening, if at all, in many instances. That is why we have tried to make sure that at all stages we are working with people and that we are bringing them on board with us.

I fully accept that communication has been difficult over the past number of weeks but we have come to the end of the roadmap that was put in place from March to August. The focus has very much been on getting our schools open. Everybody has been delighted to see children in uniforms and to get back to some sense of normality this week. I think people have appreciated that has been the focus. With a sudden increase in case numbers over the past number of weeks, decisions have been taken at a shorter notice that we would have liked. Maybe decisions have been based on public health advice and guidance, but at all times we have tried to communicate that. I understand it is often difficult. We have tried to communicate it. I certainly want to ensure that people understand the legislation, what it does, how long is it for, and what it means for the publicans, for restaurateurs and for any clubs that have a liquor licence.

A number of Members referred to the sunset clause. Section 17(3) clearly states that both Houses can approve an extension prior to 9 November 2020 where there is an agreement. If we were to do it, we can debate as to for how long that should happen.

There were various other issues that strayed into other areas relating Covid-19 which I will not touch on.

I thank Deputies for their support for the legislation. It is legislation that I have not introduced lightly but it is needed. It is legislation that the Garda supports and requires to ensure public houses that are open are fully compliant and that the force has a mechanism where that is not the case.

I look forward to the debate on Committee Stage tomorrow and I thank the Deputies for their co-operation with that.

There were a number of comments regarding officials, including by somebody who asked who wrote this legislation. I thank officials in my Department because this legislation was put together quickly. They worked with the Attorney General and the relevant Departments in setting this out. They have done a very good job. It is as straightforward as it can be, given, as the Leas-Cheann Comhairle outlined, the complexities. I merely want to thank them for their work in that regard.

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