Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

Having listened to this debate all day, I am not reassured that we will have what Deputy Durkan and other speakers are calling for, namely, that in tandem with this quite draconian legislation, which was introduced without any pre-legislative scrutiny, we will have legislation to allow pubs to open.

A carrot is being dangled in front of Deputies to get them to vote for this quite severe legislation. The Bill did not undergo pre-legislative scrutiny. It was only presented to Deputies a couple of days ago. The time allowed for amendments to be submitted was very short.

Ar an gcéad dul síos, I wish to thank the public for being so obedient and respectful in the context of the crisis we are in. I thank the volunteers, including those from GAA and other organisations and clubs across the country, who did so much. I thank the publicans who closed their doors when asked to so do. I thank the disability groups. Schools were closed but, thankfully, they are now open again. An enormous price has been paid by the State. Thankfully, the curve was well flattened. Fair dues to everybody for that. I thank full-time workers and offer my utmost sympathies to those who were seriously ill and the families of those who lost their lives.

As leader of the Rural Independent Group, I went to all the meetings, We supported every move the Government made. However, it is not a two-way street. There is no quid pro quo. The Government has not reciprocated. Inept decisions have been made and confused messages and conflicting statements sent out. This has led to uncertainty. That seems to be the raison d'être for what is going on.

I do not know who drew up the Bill, but Deputies are expected to pass Second Stage tonight. It probably will be passed. The Minister for Health is being empowered to put in place statutory instruments to deal with numerous matters, some of which have not yet been specified. It is dangerous to give any Minister the power to create statutory instruments which will not be debated or voted on in and for which he or she will not be accountable to the House.

The Garda has done a tremendous job. I salute the gardaí in County Tipperary and elsewhere. I refer to the way community and other gardaí went into communities to support people. I hope they get to keep the vehicles they were given in the process. They supported the people and the people supported them. It was a wonderful exercise in community support for the Garda. It was the essence of community alert and neighbourhood watch.

It is vital that we get clarity. The numbers being hospitalised are very low. Obviously, there is still a risk. The approach of flattening the curve, washing one's hands and exercising good hygiene has been lost in favour of demonising a sector of society by scapegoating the pubs. Pub owners must apply for licences annually and must trade properly in order to get them. They give valuable supports to communities. They support everything that goes in on a community. There is an attempt to double the bus fleet in order to allow for 50% bus occupancy, yet the exact opposite has happened with pubs. Many are being forced to remain closed, but if they were all open, there would be fewer people in those that are currently open. Pubs are being victimised and that must stop. I referred to it as a kind of apartheid and that is what it is. I am not saying that it is the same as apartheid, but this sector, the people in which pay wages, tax, VAT and insurance and, above all, support their communities, is being demonised. T.J. McInerney from Tipperary is leading the cause. He will be up in Dublin next Tuesday if the pubs have not been opened before then. I hope they will be opened. All the publicans want is to be allowed to trade within the guidelines, prove they can do so safely and keep their customers safe, which is their vital raison d'être for being in business. They want to be able to submit a tax return in October, as they do every year. If they do not, the State will have less money coming in. The significant amount of excise duty and VAT collected on every pint, glass or measure that is sold must be borne in mind. The Government is cutting off its nose to spite its face.

I listened to the Leas-Cheann Comhairle make an excellent speech on the matter. She is a barrister and far more qualified than me. She was very concerned about this legislation. I was unsure which way she would vote on it. The Bill has not undergone pre-legislative scrutiny. What is proposed is unprecedented. It is very dangerous to give these kinds of powers to any Minister and expect the Garda to enforce them. The Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors and the Garda Representative Association stated that they do not wish to have these powers and that they were not briefed on them or consulted.

The big stick is being brought out instead of the carrot. The stick is being used all the time, but it is becoming weak and broken. Members of the public are weary and will not take any more of this. Of course, people will be responsible but they will not be intimidated by Big Brother or by far-reaching powers that would affect them even in their homes. I am the father of eight children. There are ten people in my household. Are we more than the six people allowed to gather? Parts of the Bill and other directives are nonsense. The lack of clarity is very foolish. I am asking the Minister, please, to go back to the drawing board with the Bill and have it undergo proper pre-legislative scrutiny and have Deputy Jim O'Callaghan and others look over it. People need hope in these dark days as we move into the autumn, with children back at school and the long evenings drawing in. We must give hope to the people. They are not getting hope here; it is all about being beaten down and warned. I appeal to the Minister, Deputy McEntee, and the Minister for Health, Deputy Donnelly, to stop threatening to bring in local lockdowns in Tipperary and four other counties. That sends shivers up people's spines.

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