Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change) | Oireachtas source

The overwhelming majority of people have behaved responsibly in combating this deadly virus because people know what it means and what it is. Before the restrictions came in, older people and people with respiratory illnesses were staying in their homes because they knew that was the right thing to do. They did not have to be told in many instances and that was commented on in the lead-up to those restrictions. There is a minority who have blatantly disregarded the restrictions.

I make this point because it leads in to the fact that this Government has to be very clear on what we are asking people to do. People must be very clear in that communication exactly what has to be done.

A demonstration happened in Dublin two weeks ago where social distancing and the wearing of masks were deliberately and blatantly disregarded. The people and the groups who organised this were extremely irresponsible. Many people have quite understandable concerns about the State intervening in their lives, about surveillance and about big pharma and its greed for profits. People are hugely concerned about radiation and mobile phone masts and there are questions around people's health. The media has a role to play here. The "golfgate" event in Clifden was just unbelievable where there were Government politicians, a judge, bankers, an ambassador and others in privileged positions. My colleague, Deputy Catherine Connolly, put it right when she said it was vulgar in the sense of "We can do it because we can, we always do this anyway, it is our little golden circle and we will not be stopped". These people, who are supposed to be intelligent, thought they could walk into a room such as that, knowing the background and knowing the revelations around the virus as discussed in this House. Only the day previously a Minister had said that the virus knows how to party and then he was at a party the following night. It beggars belief. All of these things have really upset people and made them very angry. These fears are, unfortunately, being exploited not just by conspiracy theorists - even though some of those conspiracies are over the top - but also by extremely dangerous forces in the background who use the pandemic to spread their poisonous ideology. It is preposterous to see neo-Nazis and fascists pretending to be concerned about people's civil liberties. I emphasise that these are just small groups who utilise it, but if we are not careful about communicating around what should be done and what can be done safely we will potentially open up a space for that type of ideology to try to spread. I raise this issue because it is important to have balance and care in imposing restrictions and how they are imposed, including clear explanations for why they are necessary. We need to ensure that such people do not gain any support or foothold in our society.

On the proposed legislation, I will note two points. First, there is the report from An Garda Síochána on the 165 potential breaches of the regulations by bars and restaurants in July to 7 August. We have not been told what those breaches are. Garda representatives have said there needs to be caution around what is actually practical to police. This important point was made on the radio over the weekend. The regulations must be practical for the Garda to police. Policing in Ireland has the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, which can cover a vast range of issues. A garda can ask a person to do something because the person is in breach of the Act and if the person does not do it then he or she can be arrested. That covers nearly everything. For example, one is not supposed to carry a beer down the street in public. A garda can challenge a person on that. Normally they do not because the gardaí have a bit of sense about them and try to deal with such situations consensually and by working with communities.

Second, bars and restaurants, and the owners who are flouting the regulations, need to be shut down and their licences withdrawn. If this legislation is the only way to do it then I support it, but with a reservation that it puts pressure on a garda to have to decide if and how regulations have been broken. I put it to the Minister that there must be a clear outline of what are the regulations. We know about the physical distancing - I do not call it social distancing - and we are aware of mask wearing. The regulations include making sure spaces are clear, clean and wiped down and that venues take names and contact numbers of people who come in, which enables track and trace. These are the types of regulations we have. If these are not being abided by then a premises should be closed down.

On the issue of wet bars, there are many retired people in our communities, in the cities and in rural areas, who live alone. Generally they may have visited a pub in the afternoon or early evening for a few quiet pints and to have a chat. It is important that this social contact and outlet is preserved. People need that contact. Surely NPHET and the Government can come up with a plan to facilitate these premises, perhaps to allow wet bars to open for a few hours to accommodate these people only. Maybe there are other ways to deal with this whereby those bars could open and close at certain hours. I believe the problem occurs when one combines the association of people meeting up and drink. That is when the barriers come down. I was talking with my partner's son who went out for a birthday celebration at the weekend. They were outside, at a barbecue, at a pub. They had a few drinks and then at the end, when they had to leave the restaurant within the hour and a half, someone said "Sure come back to the house". The barriers had gone down. That is the thing when drink is mixed with socialising. One person with them had not had a drink and said "No, we are going home, that is it, the night is finished". That is how easily these things happen. They are not premeditated. People are not saying they are going to go out, have a meal with six people and then meet people in the home also. That is how the virus spreads. It is important to get the message out there on the basic requirements of social - or physical - distancing, washing hands, wearing masks and only having a few people in the home who are not in the family circle. This is not just an issue for rural areas, it also applies to Dublin city where many people depend on those small bars to be able to meet their friends.

It is all well and good bringing in this legislation but the real offending, in many instances, has been in workplaces such as meat processing plants and agricultural plants that have been the cause of lockdowns in several counties. Tackling this issue would not require the Government to allow extra powers. All that is needed is to give trade unions and workers the same rights that workers have in countries such as Australia and New Zealand where unions can legally enter a premises to conduct health and safety inspections, workplace rights compliance inspections and collective bargaining discussions. This would not cost the State a cent; not a cent. The trade union movement, including the Irish Congress of Trade unions, ICTU, has called for this for years. It would provide better health outcomes for workers through the Covid-19 crisis and through normal times. The only employers who would have anything to fear from trade unions inspecting workplaces for breaches in law are the bad employers. The Government is bringing forward legislation on criminal offences with regard to restaurants and pubs that serve food, while not bringing in the same type of legislation for workers in workplaces.

For all the reasons raised by Deputies Catherine Murphy, Catherine Connolly and others, I am not sure about this legislation. I do not believe it has been clarified to the point where we as legislators should be able to stand over it. With a sunset clause then maybe it can be reviewed. Owners, employers, workers, customers and the enforcers must be very clear on what is part of this legislation. It has to be very clear.

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