Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister for bringing this important Bill to the House today. It is not the sort of legislation that anybody wants to have to bring to the House at any time but it is a clearly nuanced, sophisticated and graduated effort to try to effect as much compliance as possible so that we can continue to open our society and our pubs, night-life and entertainment industry. It is a step towards that. I thank the Minister for all the work that needs to go into that. Looking at the Bill, there is the tradition of extended Long Titles that we have seen since the financial emergency measures Bill in 2009, where we can see the effort of the drafters to situate the restrictions that are being imposed in the context of the threat to human life and health and in the threat to our society generally. I refer to all the provisions. This emergency has arisen and unfortunately we have to introduce these unusual restrictions pertaining to interference in private property, as in 2009, and, now, pertaining to interference in the operation of somebody's lawful business in a licensed premises or registered business. The way in which it is set out really sets the tone for the Bill and for what the Minister, the Department and the Government are trying to achieve, namely, to do everything we can to effect compliance but recognising that what we are having to do is in the context of a genuinely serious and unprecedented emergency.

As Deputy Richmond said, we have had an enormously strong tradition of policing by consent in this country and we have seen how that graduated policing approach has worked well in different contexts. As recently as earlier this year we had the regulation of movement and the extraordinary work by the Garda in our communities trying to monitor, give encouragement to and educate people to try to restrict their movements for the benefit of everybody in society. Between 8 April and 27 June gardaí had more than a million interactions with the public in the context of the operation of those regulations. Out of those interactions they only had to use any of the powers given to them by the House on 320 occasions. It really is an example of the graduated nature of it. I would expect, as the Minister said, that a similar approach will be taken by the police. This Bill is about education and trying to effect compliance. It is a proportionate and reasonable response to the threat that can be posed by people who continue to breach the regulations within pubs or other environments. As the Minister said, this is a step towards perhaps being able to open pubs more broadly, being able to do so safely, and to give the Garda the powers where and if they are needed to be able to effect compliance.

Going through the Bill, I see every effort has been made to approach it in a proportionate way. A bit like other legislation, the Minister was asked at every stage to try to ask for compliance, to give direction, to give advice. It is only where that direction by the Garda is not followed that more draconian measures must and can apply. Even where that is so, they are for short periods, initially of just the rest of the day or into the following morning, with the opportunity for the business to reopen the following day. They are for periods of not more than 72 hours in circumstances where it is more serious and where there has had to be an additional application. Again, it is not about closing down businesses but simply about trying to effect compliance in the moment and at the time to prevent danger to public health and breaches of the regulations.

We can imagine situations in which publicans who are working very hard to give effect to all of the regulations may themselves encounter situations from time to time, through no fault of their own, that become unmanageable or overly difficult, where customers are finding it difficult to comply with the regulations. Publicans may look in certain cases for support from the Garda and without the benefit of these regulations and powers the Garda may not be able to help. It is not about exercising a heavy hand at all but simply being able to give a very firm direction or well-directed nudge towards effective compliance in the interests of public health. It is absolutely necessary.

I want to thank the gardaí as others have done for their work through this period. They have treated people with such respect and dignity in having to make such changes to their lives where they have stopped and educated and provided assistance, where they have provided assistance to people who have needed it quite outside of the operation of these or other regulations. I have been a member of the Special Committee on Covid-19 Response since its establishment and it is clear that people have now gotten to the greatest degree of frustration, even more so than during the lockdown when it was very clear what was necessary and why, and when all of the rules were very clear. Over the past number of weeks we have found ourselves at the most difficult phase where we are trying to reopen things and trying to encourage activity.

People have, completely understandably, reached the end of their capacity to forgive that in some cases or the edge of their patience in other cases. Perhaps they are just tired of trying to follow the logic or science behind the different decisions that must be made. It is completely understandable how people are personally frustrated.

It is also completely understandable how business is frustrated and people want to get back to normality and having an income stream so they can support their employees and maintain the viability of the business. It is just at this moment, as we have reopened society, we have seen a resurgence. We must do everything we can to manage this difficulty in a nuanced way. It will not be easy. This type of legislation, which is limited, proportionate, graduated and delicate, and which has a built-in sunset clause, is the right approach. I commend the Minister on bringing it to the House and I wish her well with it.

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