John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I congratulate you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, on your election. It was certainly a turn-up for the books that you secured the vote against the odds. I wish you well in your position. I have no doubt from watching you in the Committee of Public Accounts and doing temporary Chair that you will do an excellent and fair job.

I congratulate the Ministers on their appointments because this is the first opportunity I have had to speak in the Dáil since they were appointed. I wish them well in their various roles and the work they have to do on behalf of the State.

It is unfortunate, however, that the section which does not refer specifically to universities but to Ministers of State and their payments should be taken in this Bill today. The Bill itself is a positive step forward. It is one that needs to be fleshed out and debated properly without having the drawback of having to pass also the section of the Bill which relates to Ministers of State. It is unfortunate in a second way because there is a need for a full debate on the appointment of Ministers, Ministers of State and super junior Ministers. It would not be in a negative way but in a way that would give a greater explanation and depth of understanding to just exactly what goes on in the various Departments as well as the work that has to be undertaken by modern governments which expands right across the spectrum of activity in society and in the economy in a much deeper way than before.

The cry before the appointment of Ministers is always about needing a special Minister for one thing or another. Why do people feel left out when they do not have a Minister for a specific sector? That greater debate should be undertaken on another day so people can have their say as to what a small or big Government looks like and what it costs. There is a cost to democracy but we have to be extremely careful that it is not excessive and can stand up to scrutiny.

A previous speaker mentioned the university for the south east in the context of the next up-and-coming recognition of a regional university. There was a meeting earlier this morning, which I could not attend because I was here, about progressing that particular project and bringing it to fruition to the benefit of not just Waterford but all the counties that make up the south east. The south east is an area which has been held economically and socially in terms of its development. Its qualities may be recognised but its true ability to move forward and what it has to offer have not been given the appropriate recognition in the State.

It is not today or yesterday that we have spoken about the university for the south east. It dates back in history with the proposed university for Kilkenny covered in a book written by Michael Conway. In more recent years, Mary McAleese, before she was President, began the conversation about having an outreach from Armagh based in Kilkenny to further the interests of universities in regions around the country and making them more accessible to people. To make them accessible, it is not just about geographical location. It is about funding, ensuring that the courses are meaningful and the qualifications are not dumbed down but beefed up. It is about everyone having the opportunity to attend university and to better themselves educationally, regardless of age or from where they come. That is important because education and furthering education through university is a great way of breaking that cycle of people being kept at a particular level in society, as well as ending poverty traps.

As legislators we need to do everything we possibly can to ensure that not only the financial aspect of this is pushed out to support others but the structures are there to ensure easy access. The Minister needs to look at the strength of a region when considering universities. I hope that the university for the south east is established soon. I encourage Waterford and Carlow institutes of technology to come together quickly to avail of the €90 million which is available to ensure they can complete their application and move the project forward to the delivery stage.

Any delay in the project whatsoever will delay possibilities for people. We cannot allow that to happen.

Regarding the strengths of the south east, I have always put forward the view that we should build on what we have in terms of education and tourism. I encourage the Minister of State to take the lead in each region and, in the south east in particular, to consider the possibility of Norman studies within the university. It would be a specific draw for the university, given that Norman studies is a major subject across Europe. There is also a significant tourism aspect to this. A Norman museum and study centre for Kilkenny city would not be unusual. Instead, it would be a proper home for such a project and could be attached to the university under discussion. It would not be alien to the location either. There is Kilkenny Castle and various monuments around the city, the county and the south east. The knowledge of that period of our history that people bring with them will inform us and perhaps give us an understanding of where we have come from and how it formed. It is essential that we develop this type of approach to our educational establishment and what we deliver. The €90 million for the project is there and the Minister of State needs to encourage the speedier and appropriate use of that money in order to conclude the application process and get it started.

Regarding what apprenticeships might add, we are losing quite a deal of our history in terms of how our built heritage was constructed and maintained. I am referring to stonemasonry and the use of limestone and various other materials. We are losing knowledge about that part of our history. The apprenticeship scheme should be undertaken by the OPW. The Minister of State should encourage that. The OPW has a range of fantastic in-house skills and it should ensure that they are passed down to the next generation through the apprenticeship scheme. This would supply qualified people who understood our built heritage and would be in a position to pass on their knowledge and skills to ensure that it is maintained. This is an essential part of the apprenticeship scheme.

The scheme must be used constructively within the agencies of the State where there is a basis for its usage. That would be important. The Minister of State could easily link up with the OPW to ensure it happens. For example, the weirs on our rivers form part of our built heritage and are an essential part of the River Nore. They could be reconstructed and put to proper use. That is a skill in itself. Mr. Alan Sullivan, who assisted the OPW in the building of a weir in Kilkenny, used a technique found in Germany, but professionals with the skill sets necessary to build weirs are few and far between. These skills are essential. There is considerable opportunity to address such issues.

I will turn to legacy issues in universities. Critically, there are financial issues in all universities and they were often discussed by the Committee of Public Accounts. They arose and were not resolved. For example, some related to companies within universities needing to be accounted for properly, to be transparent and to form part of the reconstruction process that is under way in terms of this Bill and the work of the universities and the Minister. There are also HR issues that need to be addressed. For example, there are outstanding whistleblower cases in CIT, which were raised by Deputy MacSharry, Deputy Kelly and others, including me. We asked for them to be addressed so that legacy issues attached to the university's status could be concluded.

Given the new Department and the two new ministerial positions, I suggest that we now have an opportunity to have legacy issues, in particular the one that I referenced, dealt with comprehensively and immediately so that established technological universities can move on in a positive way without having to look over their shoulders because they must account for past issues.

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