Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

As I already told Deputy Shortall, the rationale for increasing the number sitting at Cabinet was laid out by the three party leaders when the Government was formed. There are increasing demands on all of us.

There was a suggestion of Departments being abolished or being merged in advance of the programme for Government, which some interest groups, lobbies and Deputies opposed. There were suggestions before the Government was formed that new Departments were needed. The Government is bound by the Constitution of 1937 to limit the number of people with seals of office sitting at the Cabinet table to 15. After that, decisions have to be made as to how the various different interests and demands, be they societal, economic or otherwise, are to be represented at Cabinet. The decision was taken and was published in the programme for Government. It is on its back page of it. It was not something that was concealed or dreamed up. It was designed to ensure that specific areas were covered. For instance, the Minister of State, Deputy Hildegard Naughton, to whom the Deputy referred, will have overall responsibility for aviation and other elements of the transport sector, an area I know from being a Minister of State in the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport in the previous Dáil. Myself and the Deputy would have clashed on a number of occasions. That sector, along with other sectors, has grown massively since the 1937 Constitution was written. The real issue here is that the 1937 Constitution is no longer fit for the purpose in terms of dividing out responsibilities within Government to people who need to represent particular sectors. Everybody will accept that if someone is sitting at the Cabinet table and he or she takes on responsibilities to this House and the other House, then he or she should be treated the same as other Ministers sitting at the Cabinet table. They need to be accountable to the House, and this accountability will continue in this House.

The Deputy is absolutely right on the point he made about other workers. That is why we are committed, and I said it here last night, to the 2% increase for public servants which will have a significant impact on the finances of the State. We are also committed - the Minister, Deputy McGrath, has made this very clear - to opening up discussions as soon as possible with representatives of employees within the civil and public services and employers to ensure that in the context of Covid-19, which we have all learned a great deal from, a new way to address pay over the next number of years will have to reflect the points that have been raised by Deputy Boyd Barrett, which are no different from the points I raised. Nobody has a monopoly of concern on low pay. We all have family members who might be regarded by some as being low paid. This Government has started on an agenda, which will be seen later on, to stimulate the economy, to put more people back to work, to keep people at work and to spend a significant amount of money which will be voted through from this Department. Some of this may require legislation but it is designed to support the people the Deputy mentioned today and who he routinely mentions, and in respect of whom I support him. We have to do it in a way that is reflective of the current climate, which we will do. We would welcome the Deputy's support.

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