Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity) | Oireachtas source

The July stimulus will be a multibillion euro package of supports to small and medium-sized enterprises impacted by Covid-19. Today's Revised Estimate is a smaller affair entirely but, to an extent, this debate is rehearsing certain lines of argument on these issues. In that sense, the debate, important in itself, has a greater or wider significance. A package of supports for SMEs is one thing but such a package without strong terms and conditions is rather different. For instance, should a company which refuses to recognise a trade union chosen by its workers to represent them receive grant aid without conditions, or should that grant aid be made conditional on the company recognising the union in question? I would say the latter. To take another example, Aer Lingus is a profitable company that has made profits in the ballpark of €1 billion in the past decade. It has been assisted with its wage bill to the tune of more than €18 million by the State in recent months, but now it wants to implement a programme of 500 redundancies. The State aid in question, namely, the temporary wage subsidy scheme, is not covered, as I understand it, from this particular Estimate, but the basic principle applies, which is the question of whether a company should receive State aid when it is carrying out redundancies on a massive scale. I would say that it should not.

The questions I have raised in respect of union recognition and redundancies might equally be raised in regard to other issues. I am not talking about any particular companies but in a general sense. Such issues would include tax avoidance, payment of large bonuses to managers, flouting of environmental regulations and other forms of anti-social behaviour. It is fair to say that State aid without strings attached is, broadly speaking, the Fine Gael approach. It has been defended publicly by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, and I expect it is the approach that will be adopted by the Tánaiste in the preparation of the July stimulus package. I can only assume that Fianna Fáil and the Green Party are now signed up to the same approach. If not, they should say so and say it soon. It is not an approach that I support. My colleague, Deputy Paul Murphy, indicated earlier that he had been intending to call a vote on these Estimates but will not do so on the basis of assurances from the Tánaiste that the moneys we are discussing today will overwhelmingly be directed at small businesses. When it comes to larger businesses and the July stimulus package, it may be a different matter. I am putting down a marker in that regard.

I would also like to say that I would, in some cases, support nationalisation of businesses and injection of cash rather than providing State aid to private owners. This should apply in the case of big businesses and larger medium-sized enterprises when they are axing jobs. Aer Lingus is an example of a company that should be nationalised, or renationalised as is the case in that instance. Another issue of concern is what is happening with Debenhams, where 2,000 jobs were recently axed. The Tánaiste will be aware that three of the 11 stores closed in the Republic of Ireland, namely, at Mahon Point in Cork city, Blanchardstown in west Dublin and Newbridge in County Kildare, were profitable stores. Moreover, several of the other stores could be returned overnight to profitability if rents were cut to a reasonable level. One such example is the Debenhams store on St. Patrick's Street in Cork which was paying €3.25 million per annum to its landlord. The case for nationalising these Debenhams stores, renegotiating rents and saving jobs is very strong. I will be returning to this issue in the debate surrounding the July stimulus package.

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