Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

The Deputy comes into the House and makes valid points as a Member of the Oireachtas, as he has a right, duty and obligation to, and I have an obligation to answer his questions and give my view. I find it very frustrating that he then puts in little loaded terms like "sweetheart deals".

We need to remind ourselves what was happening here. I know the further it gets away from that possibility he might hope people will forget, but I do not believe the people of this country will forget. We were looking around the world at people gasping for breath and a shortage of ICU beds and ventilators. People on all sides in this House were asking regularly, "Will we have enough ventilators? Will we have enough isolation beds? Will we have enough ICU beds?" We did everything humanly possible to secure as much capacity as possible. I am delighted beyond belief that we did not have to use some of that capacity. I am delighted that some of the best the Deputy can hurl at me is that we had vacant beds that we paid for because that meant we did not have Irish people in those beds desperately sick and fighting for their lives.

The HSE's financial advisers have received the information on costs. It includes the management accounts for the hospitals for the six months prior to the arrangement. The information is as set out in schedule 2 of the heads of terms I laid before the House. The information has been verified by a firm of accountants working on behalf of the HSE. On the basis of the information, the cost of the arrangement for April was €87.5 million. As these hospitals are private enterprises - the Deputy and I might not like that fact - the details of payments to individual hospitals and groups are regarded as commercially sensitive and, therefore, in accordance with the heads of terms, the details have not been published.

In the interests of transparency, it is intended to publish more summary financial information. I think that will be useful because I agree with the Deputy regarding the need for this House to scrutinise that information.

There were no sweetheart deals. Those are loaded terms to let them deny it. This was a situation where private hospitals were providing their facilities to us on a cost-only, open-book model, whereby the hospitals would be reimbursed only for the operating costs properly incurred during the period. I assure the Deputy that many of his constituents did benefit from procedures. Many were public patients who got an opportunity to darken the doors of a private hospital for the first time.

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