Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I am going to get off to a good beginning with Deputy Hourigan, which I hope I will be able to continue with Deputy Howlin.

Deputy Hourigan's description of this crisis is very accurate. It is very different from what has happened before in that it is happening in Ireland and across the world because of a public health decision that governments have taken and citizens are complying with. It is so different from where we have been before. The Deputy also made a point regarding how savings have gone up and by how quickly they have gone up. When we take a step back from the terrible harm with which we are all grappling at the moment and our efforts to repair it, we could say that until this crisis arose, the economy had been performing very well. This, in turn, has allowed the State to take the place of spending from the private sector, which is now translating into really high savings rates. If the next Government and this House were able to give confidence regarding the future public health and economic health of our country - which I believe we will be able to do - that current very high savings rate and the ability to spend it in our shops and invest it could be a very powerful force in what happens in the economy, even later on this year. We have a number of bridges to cross before we get to that point.

On the Deputy's question regarding the personal insolvency legislation, the existing personal insolvency legislation has been successful to date in preventing many of the worst expectations of many regarding repossessions in Ireland from being realised. There are more than 80,000 restructured loans in place and in the case of more than 85% of those loans, terms are being met. I believe that the personal insolvency legislation we have in place is capable of dealing with the difficulties that may lie ahead. However, it does need to be reviewed and we need to consult the Insolvency Service of Ireland to ensure the framework in place will be fair for everybody in the types of challenges that could unfold.

On the question on income, I respectfully make the case that I am not sure the issue is the continuation of the wage subsidy scheme or pandemic unemployment payment, PUP, in the future that might be causing the difficulties to which the Deputy referred in regard to the handling of loan applications. I know the difficulties are real because I have also experienced these cases. The question is around how quickly income will rebuild. We all need to be in a place - I know this is a very difficult and sensitive matter for many - that where loans are given, the person giving the loan and the person receiving it are both confident that the terms of the loan can be met. The Deputy will recall the difficulties into which many entered when it became clear that could not happen. There is a need for care to be taken now. These issues have to be dealt with sensitively by banks which are dealing with families who are in situations they never thought they would be in.

On the co-operative model to which the Deputy referred, we have a credit union movement in Ireland. I am sure there will be an opportunity for the Deputy and I to discuss this matter later. I reiterate that I welcome those who want to set up a different banking model in Ireland but if they want to do that, with respect, they cannot expect the State to capitalise that model. I have met the leaders of the credit union movement on two separate occasions since the Covid-19 crisis began. They would understandably question why, if we were making money available for a new banking model in Ireland, we were not making that money available to them. If there are organisations or entities that believe they can set up a different banking model in Ireland, I know there are many, including the Central Bank of Ireland and me, would be willing to engage with them on that.

However, in terms of moving this forward, it will have to be on the basis of their ability to fund it themselves, as is the case with the credit union movement. As a next step, in the aftermath of a report that was done by me and the Minister for Rural and Community Development on the community banking model in Ireland, we have a consultant who is doing some work in this area for the Department of Finance and the Department of Rural and Community Development. We can perhaps use that as a process for dealing with the issue to which the Deputy referred.

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