Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I join Deputy O'Reilly in offering my sympathy and condolences to the family of the care worker to whom she referred and indeed to all families who have been bereaved. We think of them all.

On staffing in nursing homes, Deputy O'Reilly made a valid point. All Members know that nursing homes often face staffing challenges and that there is often significant competition between elements of the health services, be they public or private, to obtain staff. One of the best things we can do to help nursing homes on staffing, after engaging with them, is to ensure that there is a quick turnaround time for test results for staff in nursing homes. Last week, a very high number of staff were out of work awaiting tests. I will not quote the exact figure in case I get it wrong. As most of those tests will come back negative, allowing the staff to then return to work, the decision to prioritise that testing will result, it is hoped, in many more people getting a negative result and being able to go back to work. The HSE stated that it has so far directly redeployed 61 people into the private nursing home sector. It is a small number but it must be borne in mind that such redeployment is through voluntary agreement. The HSE is carrying out a census tonight and expects the figure to be higher, but that is the current position.

On childcare, I do not wish for anyone to think anything is offensive or discriminatory. What we are trying to do - and I admit that it is more challenging than we anticipated - is find a way forward that respects the public health advice. What we want to do is twofold. First, we wish to allow public service employees to stay at home on paid leave if their partners are front-line healthcare workers. Second, we wish to look at the possibility of allowing registered childminders into the homes of such care workers. However, we can only do so when the NPHET tells us it is safe to so do. That will be looked at in the context of the road map. I engaged with the INMO yesterday and today and will engage with them more formally tomorrow on this issue.

On the Deputy's point about the CEO of the HSE not realising that there was a problem when he met Nursing Homes Ireland, realising there is a problem and challenge is different from being able to keep a virus out of nursing homes. The rate of infection in nursing homes is a problem the world over. There may have been attempts to suggest this problem is specific to Ireland. Of course, it is not. Sadly, the rates of infection and mortality in this country are similar to those in many other countries. We know that many countries, including some very nearby, are not recording data in the way that they are being recorded here.

We are going into nursing homes and trying to identify the virus and not masking it by only announcing deaths in hospitals and not in nursing homes. Dr. Siobhán Kennelly, who is the clinical lead for older persons services, made the point which has been lost in the debate that there are more people recovering from Covid-19 in nursing homes, thank God, than sadly passing away. I say that because I am conscious a lot of people are possibly watching in here who are worried about their mum, their dad or their loved one in a nursing home. The majority of people are recovering from Covid-19.

On private hospitals, the Deputy made some sensible suggestions as she often does. I reject the phrase "bonanza". As I have said to the Deputy before, I know these are phrases she feels she has to say but let me be clear that nobody will make one cent or one euro from the private hospital deal. I published it fully, as the Deputy requested, and all that will be paid is the cost of running those facilities. I want to make them busier. We have seen more than 3,500 patients go through them up to now and we have seen 127 consultants sign up but we need to see more and all costs that we pay over can be scrutinised by the Comptroller and Auditor General. The point the Deputy makes about the spare capacity in private hospitals in the context of nursing homes is a valid one and is something we are actively looking at.

On the relaxation question, when I am asked questions I try to answer them. Sometimes I give the right answer and sometimes I give the wrong answer. I was asked as the Minister and as a citizen what I would like to see coming back at a safe point in time. An awful lot of the commentary has been around the economy and the wishes of certain interest groups in the economy, which are important issues. I get an awful lot of letters and correspondence from kids telling me they are missing school and their friends in the context of their mental health and well-being, and I made the point that I would like to see a way for schools to come back at the appropriate time. I was asked if there is a timeline for that and I said "No". I was asked when that would be and I replied that it would happen when the national public health emergency team deems it appropriate. We need to publish this roadmap over the next week so people can see what the different phases look like because I am conscious of not wanting to give out mixed messages. The next 12 days really matter.

The national public health emergency team will consider the more broad issues regarding masks and I will come back to the Deputy specifically on the supplies for the nursing homes that she referenced.

I will run out of time but on the issue of home care, I have a note here on the fact that we have been looking at both priority 1 and priority 2 clients for how in some cases we could perhaps re-allocate resources from some lower priority cases to help those more in need. We have only done that, however, where there are other supports in case. All cases are reviewed by a public health nurse. If the Deputy has any specific cases, I would be happy to discuss them with her. We are also asking the HSE to closely map the impact of this pandemic on the provision of the home care targets set out in the national service plan.

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