David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I would like to join with other Deputies in thanking Deputy O'Callaghan for bringing this important Bill before the House and facilitating this very important debate. Everyone in the House was shocked by the tragic knife related events which occurred earlier this year and to which colleagues opposite have referred. They highlight only too clearly the trauma and damage which can occur when knives are used during serious assaults.

All Members are conscious of the very serious impact which violent crime, particularly attacks of a random nature, has on victims and families. The Fianna Fáil Deputies who have spoken described that very well.

At an operational level, the Garda Síochána proactively targets public disorder and anti-social behaviour, including knife-related crime, through the strategic deployment of Garda resources. Unfortunately, many incidents involving knives occur with a degree of spontaneity which increases the challenges for preventative policing and enforcement.

The spirit and intention of the Bill is clear, namely, to ensure that the penalties for knife-related crime serve as a deterrent to such criminal activity. As the law stands, the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990 provides a comprehensive and robust legal framework with respect to knife crime, including heavy penalties for breaches of the law concerned. The maximum penalty for an offence under subsection 9(1), namely, possession of a knife in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, was increased from one year to five years by the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009. That Act also provided the Garda Síochána with an extended power of search without warrant in respect of knives and offensive weapons.

The Commissioner has advised that the Garda Síochána tackles knife crime through a tiered approach involving a rigorous enforcement policy, education and awareness-raising programmes. In addition, detective units and divisional crime task forces may be utilised to provide a high-visibility presence in areas such as late night bars, clubs, etc., particularly when people are exiting premises, to deter and detect anti-social behaviour and possible altercations.

The number of knives seized has risen from approximately 1,200 in 2016 to 1,600 in 2017 and almost 2,000 last year, but this is an indication of increased Garda activity in tackling knife crime, as well as improvements in the recording of knife seizures. It is notable that recent media reports pointed out that the number of serious knife assault injuries recorded in Irish hospitals last year was the lowest since at least 2005. When combined with the Garda Síochána seizure data, this suggests that knife crime remains relatively low and that the Garda continues to be extremely proactive in tackling these issues. That is further evidenced by the fact that Irish Prison Service figures indicate that 34 prisoners are in custody serving a sentence on charges of possession of a knife or flick knife. Their sentences are at the lower end of the existing sentencing range, with the majority serving sentences of less than one year.

The Garda recently launched its assaults in public reduction strategy, which includes a knife crime element. It was approved by the Garda executive in August 2019 and commenced on a national basis on 2 September under the operational name Operation Soteria. The strategy has been communicated throughout the Garda Síochåna for implementation between 2019 and 2021 and will be under constant progress review by local and national management. Its overall objective is to reduce the incidence of assaults in public places, including assaults involving the use of a knife or other weapon. The Garda Síochána is dealing very effectively with the issue of knife crime. However, the Government must never be complacent and the response to all aspects of criminal activity must be kept under continual review.

Deputy O'Callaghan outlined his reasons for introducing the Bill. It was introduced following several knife-related incidents earlier this year and because of the increase in the number of knives seized by the Garda Síochána. As I stated, I am of the view that the rise in knife seizures is an indication of proactive policing, with increased Garda activity in tackling knife crime arising from the additional resources which the Government has provided to the Garda Commissioner in recent years. As Deputy O'Callaghan outlined, the purpose of the Bill is to amend section 9(7), dealing with the possession of knives and other articles, of the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990 by increasing from five years to ten years the maximum sentence which can be imposed on a person convicted of possession of a knife under section 9(1), (4) or (5). Section 9(1) creates an offence in circumstances where "a person has with him in any public place any knife or any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed". Section 9(4) states: "Where a person, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the onus of proving which shall lie on him), has with him in any public place any flick-knife, or any other article whatsoever made or adapted for use for causing injury to or incapacitating a person, he shall be guilty of an offence." Section 9(5) provides that: "Where a person has with him in any public place any article intended by him unlawfully to cause injury to, incapacitate or intimidate any person either in a particular eventuality or otherwise, he shall be guilty of an offence."

In principle, I am open to considering the case for increased penalties for possession of knives and other similar articles. However, the Bill as drafted requires detailed consideration to ensure that the consequences of such legislative change are identified and taken into account. The five-year sentence currently provided for in the 1990 Act is in line with other sentences in the 1990 Act and comparable offences such as, for example, assault causing harm under section 3 of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997, which carries a penalty of five years. I note that the Deputy does not propose an increase in sentences for what appear to be more serious offences under the 1990 Act. This would mean that, on enactment of the legislation, the offences under sections 10 and 11 of the 1990 Act, namely, trespassing with a knife or other weapon made for causing injury or incapacitating a person or intended for such use, and production of an article capable of inflicting serious injury while committing or about to commit an offence or in the course of a dispute or fight, would still carry penalties of five years, resulting in an imbalance in the penalties for offences in the 1990 Act. I am also concerned that an increase in penalties for possession of a knife would be disproportionate to penalties for more serious offences such as, for example, possession of a firearm, for which a maximum sentence of up to ten years is provided.

As I stated, the Government is, in principle, open to considering the case for increased penalties for possession of knives. I acknowledge the number of fatalities arising from knife-related incidents earlier this year and sympathise with the families concerned, as do other Deputies. I am aware that several Deputies, including some speakers thus far on the Bill, have voiced concerns about such incidents. In that light, I will not oppose the Bill subject to engagement with Deputy O'Callaghan to highlight a number of difficulties with the range of penalties proposed, in addition to its being scrutinised by the Joint Committee on Justice and Equality with particular reference to the likely unintended consequences of the proposed amendments vis-à-vissanctions for possession of other weapons. As the Bill provides for an increase in criminal penalties, the issue of a money message will need to be addressed in due course. In principle, it is very important to have this debate at this time and for the committee to scrutinise the Bill to identify any unintended consequences from which we can learn. The Government is happy to engage further with Deputy O'Callaghan as the Bill progresses through the Houses.

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