Thomas Pringle (Donegal, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am sharing time with Deputies Fitzmaurice and Nolan.

Like the Deputy who has just left the Chamber, I am not a beef farmer. I am not a farmer at all and I do not come from a farming background so I am probably coming at this with a lack of knowledge. I have, however, been a member of the agriculture committee since 2011. I have heard farmers talk about their circumstances at meetings of that committee. I do not remember representatives of the beef companies talking at meetings of the committee at any stage. They are probably the only ones in the sector who have never appeared before it. That is interesting. Nobody has any idea what the beef factories are making or doing. When there is any talk of prices among farmers, there is always deflection from the beef companies. They never seem to have any responsibility at all. This is the crux of the problem. The beef factories get away all the time. One aspect of the crisis that has developed is that there is a focus on the beef factories and purchasers. This is good.

Much has been made by farmers about the need to get the representatives of the supermarkets to meetings of the committee so we can talk to them. I was at committee meetings previously at which representatives of the supermarkets were present. There was talk of vegetable prices, for example. Only 10% of Irish beef is sold in supermarkets in Ireland. Therefore, I do not see the purpose of hammering the supermarkets over what they are doing in Ireland. If they increased the price of their beef by 100%, it would mean nothing to beef farmers. That is the reality. Obviously, they are all part of chains. These are selling in England and on the Continent. We might get some insight into how they put pressure on the factories to put pressure on the beef producers to reduce the price but I am sure they will not tell us that at a meeting of the committee, especially in the context of Irish beef producers and the way in which Irish beef is sold.

I agree with those who stated that the base price needs to be increased because that is what will make a real difference to farmers. The base price is what they get and everything else is an add-on. What is included in the agreement is all the add-ons. This will make some difference to some farmers but addressing the base price is what will make a difference across the board. We need to have some sort of system with a minimum base price. That is the reality because there is no doubt but that the farmers cannot continue to be squeezed in the way they have been in recent years. EU payments that are lumped in are actually making up their income and selling the beef is basically justifying those payments. That is the way it goes. The only beneficiaries in the long run are the beef factories. They seem to be making large profits. We do not know because they are all privately held and owned. We can only guess what they are doing. That is a real problem in getting to the truth.

I agree with all of the other Members who have raised those issues. I agree with Deputy Penrose, who talked about the problems with the beef industry. They have been there for years. I remember local abattoirs, which have been closed for many years now. They all provided competition at the marts. When a farmer went to a mart selling a cow the local abattoirs would bid as well as the beef factories. The marts have all been closed down. In my area of south Donegal, a number have closed. The marts have been closed by stealth. The Department imposed costs on them to force them to get up to speed and then came back a year later to impose further costs. I know of one local abattoir in my area that spent £40,000 - it was pounds at the time - to improve the place and bring it up to standard. It was visited again six months later and hit for another £20,000. How could the standards have changed so much in six months to make that happen? That had the effect of closing the abattoir, which took someone out of the bidding war at every mart taking place in Donegal town. That happened right across the board. There are now only one or two local abattoirs left in the county whereas there were 15 or 20 before. That reduces the number of people bidding to buy the beef when it comes into the mart. That is a problem and results in developments further on.

The situation now is that the beef factories are basically operating a cartel. They are fixing the price and that is the price that farmers have to take. Farmers are quite happy to take it and that is also sad because I believe - and I have had discussions about this previously - that farmers could come together to provide their own killing facilities and market their own beef and lamb. Farmers, however, are of the view that they only grow things and sell them on and that they are not interested in processing or anything like that. If one wants to be sure of getting a genuine price, however, that is what one has to do because the one certainty is that the beef barons, as they are called, are not interested in giving a genuine price for beef. That is what has caused the problem we now have.

On the beef plan which the Minister has been discussing and the outcomes of the discussions, he says that "an independent examination of the price composition of the total value of the animal" will be undertaken by the Department. How can the Department know the price composition when the beef producers do not disclose their figures? Will the producers tell the Department what they do? How can the Department stand over figures coming from the producers? I am interested in what the Minister has to say on that.

The reality is that the base price is the issue that will sort this out. If there is to be a resolution to this issue, it will involve the base price. Some way has to be found to ensure such a base price. It is the only way this issue will be solved.

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