Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

It is a lesson from which we need to learn. It is a lesson that these people have brought us and which should not have to be repeated. Despite being diagnosed with terminal cancer, each of the women have fought for fairness in our health system. It is because of these brave women that we are standing here to discuss the setting up of a CervicalCheck tribunal.

It is not easy to take on the State or companies with deep pockets. It is not easy to walk into that courtroom with barristers and be faced with an army of senior and junior counsels. It is not easy to experience the State using legal process as a battering ram and deploying major legal resources that an ordinary person could never afford. It is not easy to have personal details thrown around in a public courtroom or having well-heeled barristers delving into one's private sex life in an attempt to imply it is all, somehow, one's own fault. It is not easy, at the best of times, to go through intensive cancer treatment while at the same time having to sit in a courtroom. We must show empathy and understanding because we cannot imagine what it is like to be in the shoes of these women, having their families and managing their very precious time. We have all experienced a family member being affected by a cancer diagnosis somewhere along the line. We all know what cancer treatment does to people and how invasive and debilitating it is.

What is being proposed is not a simple solution by any manner or means and there is much pressure being felt by these people and their families. To an extent, the CervicalCheck tribunal will be a step into the unknown, as nothing of its kind has been established before. Several changes are needed to the Bill to provide additional protection to the women and their families. We believe this and we have heard other Deputies speak about this in some detail, including Deputies Alan Kelly and Catherine Connolly. The legislation should have been before the House a long time ago and the results for those involved could be mixed. However, in the round, we also believe that this process has the potential to benefit the women involved and make the experience less traumatic and quicker. We are supporting the Bill, as Deputies Donnelly and Butler mentioned earlier. Nevertheless, it is important that we comment on the legislation.

More than a year ago, the Taoiseach pledged that the State would be on the side of the plaintiff and on the side of the woman in these cases. He promised that no more women caught in the smear test scandal would have to go court. That was over a year ago but women are still going before the courts. Only last week Ms Ruth Morrissey was involved in legal proceedings. The Taoiseach promised the State would make good on women's claims and pursue the labs but it has not done so. It is hard not to conclude that much of the recent progress has been spurred on by the media attention to the current cases. I suppose the reason the media and everybody else has a very keen interest in this women's health issue is we all have a mother, a sister or a daughter. We can all relate to that one person. We all know the Vickys and Ruths. They are in our communities and talking to us. They are very engaged. It is hard not to be switched on and caught in the emotion because we can feel their pain. It is palpable. It could be me; I am lucky because it is not me but it could be me, my sister, my mother or my aunt.

The episode started last year when civil servants warned the Government weeks in advance about the potential impact of Vicky Phelan's case. Vicky is a strong woman but nobody would have thought that a person in the depths of her treatment would step forward and shine a light on the matter. Nobody thought she could be courageous and encourage others to have that same belief. These women got strength from the numbers of supporters and responses to the issue. There is always strength in numbers, although these people may not be in the exact same position. A vein of support arose because empathy took over.

We are better to be late than never. Women need and deserve an alternative to the public glare of the adversarial legal system, and the tribunal offers a private space where women can discuss what happened to them. It is an important option for those who want it and it is also important that we learn from it, as Deputy Durkan noted. That is why this measure is welcome.

This brings us to the question of who can access the tribunal. As the Bill stands, the tribunal will be open to any woman who was part of the original CervicalCheck audit or the follow-up audit by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists. Some women turned down the review from the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists but in doing so they did not know they would therefore exclude themselves from access to this tribunal. That is what Deputy Connolly spoke of earlier and I completely concur that we need to provide an option for those women to be part of this process. Fianna Fáil believes all women who had the option of participating in the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists review but turned it down should be offered it again, with the clear understanding that it would allow them access to the tribunal.

We will table amendments on this issue on Committee Stage.

We will also table an amendment on the legal costs. We all know that tribunals are not free. Women will need legal representation. Not every woman or family will be in a position to pay for that but every woman and family must have access to the tribunal and legal expertise and representation. Every woman needs to have her voice heard. Every woman should feel that her voice matters. Women should not be precluded from the process because they cannot afford the legal costs. If it is good enough on one side of the discussion, it should also be good enough on the other side. For those who cannot afford the legal costs, Fianna Fáil wants legal expertise and representation to be provided by the State and for that representation to be appropriate in terms of seniority.

The entire genesis of the tribunal was to spare the woman involved the trauma of a hostile cross-examination in public. It occurred to me when Deputy Kelly spoke earlier that people might not be comfortable talking about their sex life in public. If they want to be able to keep that information to the two legal sides and avoid the media reporting on it, their wishes should be respected. We cannot have any barriers preventing women from coming forward. We must have as much inclusion and learning from this as possible. The Bill, as drafted, achieves one part of this by moving the process from a public to a private setting. However, it still allows for an intensive, hostile cross-examination similar to what takes place in the High Court. Fianna Fáil accepts that in order to establish negligence cross-examination by both parties is required. However, such cross-examination must be proportionate. As such, the third amendment we will table will concern the legal mechanism to this end such as aggravated damage as a result of disproportionate cross-examination. It is the case that such mechanisms exist in the High Court and the Government will therefore be of the view that making this explicit in the Bill is unnecessary.

As a female Oireachtas Member, I was saddened in recent months by the length of time it has taken us to reach this stage. I do not want to get into a blame game but it has taken a while to get to this point. I know the parties concerned are happy to have this tribunal established. They are very supportive of it. It is our duty, as Teachtaí Dála, to have concern for the wishes of the people. The Bill is not perfect but we have to be supportive of it because we need the truth. We need to learn the lessons for women like Emma Mhic Mhathúna, who was so courageous, and their families and to ensure we can improve the position for women in the future. That is what this is about. I am both pleased and saddened to have spoken on the Bill.

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